Key takeaways
- Brand consistency is business-critical, not trivial:
- Directly influences brand recognition, credibility, trust, and ultimately, commercial success.
- It’s emotional (how people feel about your brand) and practical (how it impacts business results).
- Brand clarity comes first:
- Clearly define what your brand stands for to enable true consistency.
- Simplicity and clarity make brand messages easier to remember and replicate.
- Move from policing to inspiring:
- Shift the role of brand teams from enforcement (policing) to enabling creativity and inspiring colleagues.
- Provide easy access to guidelines and assets rather than imposing strict rules.
- How to get colleagues to care:
- Tell stories and showcase examples instead of simply providing documentation.
- Use “hero mentions” and celebrate successful use of brand to inspire adherence rather than highlighting failures.
- Engage with teams in conversations rather than solely relying on documents.
- Overcoming challenges with brand consistency:
- Clearly communicate the “why” behind guidelines and offer practical, visual examples.
- Establish “what good looks like” to align teams on brand expectations.
- Recognise that flexibility is necessary—allowing 10-15% adaptation per platform or context.
- Addressing internal disagreements:
- Approach stakeholders by aligning brand goals with their interests (e.g., sales success, professionalism).
- Use transparency and education (“how the sausage is made”) to create empathy and understanding.
- Key practices for brand voice:
- Clearly define principles of language (e.g., tone, vibe) rather than rigid rules.
- Provide regular, friendly, bite-sized training or examples (“copy clinics”) to keep brand language consistent.
- When to evolve the brand:
- Be proactive in recognising when brand elements no longer represent current identity or business needs.
- Ensure visual identity and brand messaging evolve together to remain relevant.
- Practical tactics shared by the community:
- Regular visual reminders and hero mentions of successful branding examples.
- Storytelling internally to communicate why brand consistency matters.
Final Tips:
- Start small, but do it consistently—build momentum gradually.
- Think long-term: Brand consistency is not short-term; it’s built over years.
- Remember, brand consistency is about creating a feeling (or “vibe”) internally, which then naturally translates externally.
Transcript
hello lovely lovely human beings uh what a pleasure as always to see you here
0:08I’ve seen folks checking in from all over the world we’ve got Melissa over in in in Houston we’ got folks in Weatherby
0:16Norwich kennworth Yorkshire Richard so my Heritage or my
0:21granddad is is from Yorkshire and Richard in the chat has placed Yorkshire in capital letters which is the most
0:26Yorkshire thing I’ve ever seen uh so it’s a real pleasure to see you all here
0:32today uh thank you all so much for taking the time uh if you haven’t
0:37already uh do chop drop in the chat feature uh where you’re watching from
0:42just like Judy has over in Florida Elena has in Yorkshire Yorkshire
0:47Yorkshire uh Neil in North London and so many more of you uh thank you all so much for taking the time today um today
0:56we have two absolutely fabulous guests um two great humans who I I’ve only just
1:03really had the opportunity to spend a little bit of time with but nonetheless the the warm Vibes are emanating from
1:08today uh I think we’re going to have a lot of fun uh so today we have uh Digger
1:13setterberg oud from fronty and Patrick Camp from seagull and Gale uh to come
1:19and help us on the important topic of brand consistency and how to get the rest of
1:24the team on board uh it’s one of those things which um when I was curating this
1:29season and it almost it started to think about how this could be a trivial topic and then I was like no you know what
1:35this is bluming important and so uh we’re going to have a lot of fun uh taking some time exploring this together
1:42today um and I just want to check in with the chat and say hey to Loris in Manchester Melanie in Northern Ireland
1:48uh Dean in London it’s such a pleasure to have you here uh today um if you have questions
1:55throughout today’s session do drop them into the Q&A uh feature uh that’s down below today we’ll operate as a pure Q&A
2:03so we got the opportunity to uh to really explore this topic uh together before we get started I just want to say
2:09thank you to uh our featured sponsor this week so our featured sponsor this
2:15week is a company called score app uh they enable you to create marketing funnels uh through quizzes um and in
2:22this case uh we’ve got an offer for them so if you want to take the opportunity to check out score app you can get 50%
2:28off your first month uh at the QR code on screen also a big big thank you uh to
2:35frontify Cambridge marketing College planable Redgate and score up uh for sponsoring today’s session I can see
2:42that I’m getting some stick in the chat here from from the community um I shared an anecdote this morning that um quite
2:48recently I um I went in to canva and created my own uh piece of branded merch
2:55uh with my own handwriting uh negating the lovely branded material that we we have uh today and uh and yeah I I got
3:04rightly uh uh pillared to from uh to
3:09post by by my Brandon guy who told me that it should never be seen outside uh
3:15so this is uh is this is what the chat is right now Digger and Patrick so uh so
3:21that’s uh yeah and thank you Nicole right let’s get going with the questions because
3:26that’s enough of me chatting um as Ian rightly said I am suffering from man flu right now so uh I’m being very brave
3:33today um so dier let’s start with you um
3:39why is brand consistency important to you you know what’s I mean this thing
3:45isn’t trivial but why isn’t it trivial to sort of show up with our brands in a consistent way well I mean I think for
3:53any brand it’s important of course and I guess for us specifically obviously that’s a huge part of why frontify the
3:59platform exists in the first place it’s to help companies and Brands uh be
4:05consistent by kind of enabling people to have access to everything that they need
4:10um but on kind of a broader level of course brand consistency is important
4:17for business basically I mean you need to have it’s very basic in that sense
4:22it’s like you need to be recognizable and you need to get people to kind of have the right um kind of connect ction
4:30and emotions evoked when you know when they see your brand because that will translate into business so I me that’s
4:37in its simplest form and then obviously we’re going to go deeper into all the details and intricacies of that I guess
4:43as we you know talk here but that’s how I kind of summarize it I guess nice I
4:49love it you know I I think it’s always important with these kinds of sessions to to lay the table Stakes so it might
4:55sound you know like the most basic of questions but I think it’s just important when start these things to go you know it’s important but it’s not
5:01easy right yeah exactly well that is right and so I know it’s eagle and Gale
5:07it’s actually a really great segue so you you’ve done a really good job for me there they go in segueing into Patrick
5:14here seag seagull and girl speak about Simplicity and you know in in Brands um
5:21but the whole point of Simplicity is that simple isn’t easy uh Patrick and so
5:27I guess I want to ask you the same question to start off with is why is brand consistency important but I guess
5:35it would be really interesting to sort of have that idea that this is a simple concept but not necessarily simple to to
5:42implement in mind exactly and I think that’s um a great combination you know
5:47because at least for us you know we can’t get to consistency without talking about
5:53Clarity and I think that’s where Simplicity comes in is understanding what your brand is about so is it is it
6:00clearly understood by the stakeholders and uh only then if you have a very
6:05clear point of view of what you’re about what you stand for what you stand by then you’re able to repeat it
6:11consistently across the passing of time I think D made a a great point in
6:16equating consistency with financial value of or or business results and I think that’s that’s exactly what happens
6:23when you’re able to do it uh successfully you know it’s not just about the recognition per se and how
6:29people are able to identify your brand easier but then about credibility as well you know it it just feels more
6:36professional it equates to trust uh people are more likely to
6:41gravitate towards your brand because it just feels properly made you know oh I
6:47don’t I don’t have a dog wait wait let’s stop the webinar
6:52this is important talk about this instead I lost the audience I lost the audience
6:59Spanish mut uh who just joined us I don’t know if he has any opinions about branding but
7:06maybe just go he was are you gonna go go go lie down
7:12sorry Patrick no problem no problem I’m used to that just to finalize the point
7:18there’s also a last thing about consistency which is familiarity right and again people just tend to trust and
7:25feel more comfortable and and feel more safe around brands or any types of of
7:30communications that they feel are more are more consistent across the different touch points or how they interact with
7:36the brands how they experience the brands so yeah it’s uh it’s something that is very important but again you
7:42know nothing that nothing that I that I said matters if you don’t have the first point of understanding what it’s about
7:48and having a very clear you know point of view about the brand that’s SP on and
7:54I think there’s a really important point there which is that the language you used to sort of describe
8:00brand there it it’s one of these Concepts where uh on one level it can feel like
8:06it’s a marketing concept but what both of you have done here is express it as a business concept you know it’s something
8:13that is not you know um important just to us it’s important to everyone which
8:19is really the spirit of this conversation which is getting everyone involved with it and understanding the
8:25importance of it um you know not just us you know as a a three chatting in this
8:31conversation and the hundreds watching in but you know sort of really involving other people um as part of this
8:38conversation um and so Patrick I’d like to follow up with you if possible um
8:43which is what are the Hallmarks of a team that you’ve experienced or seen who
8:49clearly understand you know brand consistency amongst the team um and are
8:54there any signs of teams where you’re like oh you know I’ve walked into this environment and I I probably realized
9:00that they’re not going to understand the importance of brand consistency here yeah uh two things come to mind and I
9:07would just circle back on the thing about Clarity with uh um an
9:13anecdote an interview from from Johnny I a long time ago JN I xvp of of of of
9:20design for apple and and uh he mentioned that you know it finally dawned on him
9:26he finally understood how Apple was such a a a a a company that lived and
9:31breathed the culture of the brand um when he got into an elevator in the
9:37Apple campus a long time ago and he listened to a finance guy speaking with some procurement guy about a feature of
9:44a product or something along the lines of the technology that they were just launching and it wasn’t a marketeer it
9:51wasn’t a designer it wasn’t people who were dealing with the product per se it was you know sometimes a distant
9:59Department know somebody that has no you know no connection right to the creation of things but he talked in that
10:06interview about how sophisticated the the dialogue was and he was just kind of hearing you know I don’t I don’t even
10:12think that people saw him in the elevator but he was kind of hearing and okay fine you know and he finally got it
10:18so Clarity is of course you know amongst the team and amongst the the the the
10:23other broader set of stakeholders in the company is something key the second thing for me is the um is the ability to
10:31think long term consistency consistency is not something that you do like a oneoff thing it’s not it’s not
10:39a monthly thing it’s not even a you know a campaign thing is is is an yearly and decade long thing and that is why Brands
10:48become iconic because you’re able to maintain that level of consistency and and and uh and and being being
10:55recognized and being identified across you know the passing of time so I think those those two are the key traits from
11:02from any team if you’re thinking about consistency love that and you know that that long-term mindset is something
11:09which particularly in the brand debate you know works on so many different levels where we’re speaking about tactical implementations of of marketing
11:16etc etc but you know that long-term thinking I love that point
11:21um you know and I think it goes such a long way there was a quote a long time ago from one of our speakers who said
11:27that most businesses is you know if you planted an acorn and expected to see it
11:33you know results tomorrow then you’re you’re going to struggle but in a hundred years you’re going to get a
11:38great oak tree and um in a similar way you know Brands kind of work that way um
11:44they could I come to you with um we’ve established up front that frontify you
11:51know really help teams do exactly this thing so what are the common challenges
11:58that you sort of encounter I guess probably particularly at the beginning where people probably start working with
12:04you in maintaining brand consistency across teams because I’m I’m assuming
12:10that you know of the folks watching in today most of us probably have the same
12:15five to 10 challenges when it comes to Brand consistency and and actually sort of bringing it to life I mean yeah I
12:23think that’s the conversation that we have with all of our customers and the agencies that we work with it’s funny I
12:29remember speaking once to um someone from an agency and he said it’s so sad when you’ve you’ve created this this
12:35brand and it’s kind of like your baby and then you hand it over and you watch it get bastardized by others and it
12:43hurts um and obviously we’re like there to try to like make that not happen but
12:49I mean I think on the so basically for Brands what we see happen a lot of times
12:55and the most common pain point is like you have a brand Team which is usually a bit smaller and and they’re just bombarded with requests and they have to
13:01kind of police things and you just have this like broken workflow where
13:06people um they don’t have easy access uh to the materials basically that they
13:13need to just live the brands um but what I’ve I think another thing that quite
13:19often comes up is that there’s like an increasing need for collaterals
13:24basically um because most people aren’t designers so they don’t don’t feel fully
13:30like some people like you maybe feel comfortable like designing something for
13:35themselves um but others kind of want to have more material so there’s also like
13:41this increase in in getting um it’s almost like a the brand is almost like a
13:47Shiny Toy uh to people too like they want to have the materials that they can
13:52use and we hear that and I see that too internally in our company that sales and
13:58all these other teams they want more and more like oh can I have like five different versions of this deck and can
14:03I have this and can I have that and so I think a lot of what brand teams need to
14:08do today is kind of like cater to that need and it’s tough because it’s a
14:14complex workflow and it kind of forces you know brand teams and marketing teams
14:19to create a lot of material uh and then obviously you don’t want that to go to waste so it’s kind of like this balance
14:25of having like a very clear simple structure where people can access that but also giving them the tools whether
14:32that’s like templates or whatever it is to kind of give them just the right amount of kind of co-creation
14:39capabilities I would say so it’s kind of like a little bit of a balancing act in like how do you give people enough but
14:46kind of still maintain the consistency again um so I
14:51think that’s the challenge that we see and that’s what like the people that do it well are the ones that manage to kind
14:57of like really handle that that that in itself is really interesting in the sense
15:03that I think coming into today’s session we probably all a lot of us on the call
15:09would have that shared experience of either someone going rogue with The Branding or um bastardizing yeah yeah
15:18bastardizing exactly um which is terrible but I love
15:23what I loved from your answer there is there’s actually a real reframe from uh a policing into a more of a proactivity
15:30sort of standpoint and a providing you know from policing to providing which feels generous in a way and and doesn’t
15:38sort of remove some of the heat from the conversation where folks can be like
15:44you’re using this wrong to can I provide you with the right thing or you know what actually you have access here
15:51which again it sounds like an easy thing but we’ve established this isn’t easy and so to to to sort of have that
15:58available is is really really important I think we need to drop this because my
16:03co-founder is in the chat saying he’ll send me the logos uh go wild with it
16:08yeah yeah yeah yeah so um really really important thank you and and to sort of
16:15speak to those challenges I think we’ll come back to those throughout the course of today’s session so thank you very very much so um Patrick like the role of
16:24seagull and Gale of course is to roll out Brands and and and create Brands and create simple brands that make sense um
16:32how can we let’s start get into the practicalities of getting people involved and and implementing these
16:39things and and so I think a roll out moment is probably a nice moment to speak about in terms of branding so how
16:45do you get other team members sort of inspired to care about this stuff uh when it
16:53comes to uh branding and maybe rebranding but more branding in general
16:59yes yes yes um just circling back to something that Dy mentioned just now
17:04it’s not about being the brand police and it’s it’s less about control and
17:09more about inspiring and then making sure that people become can or can
17:15become ambassadors of the brand um which internally inside a
17:21company can take forms in in in several different ways uh one of the ways that we help clients do it is through
17:28training and through uh what we call it a brand Le change program that internally we
17:35understand what are the things culturally that need to be in place to be able to absorb this new brand and we
17:41work together with several different teams not just the marketing team but HR uh and finance and and so on and so
17:47forth to be able to to make them understand what this new brand is about
17:52and uh what’s expected from them how they how they’re able to then live and breathe the brand internally because the
17:59brand is you know it should have it should have a coherence of how it is expressed externally how your customers
18:06and and consumers see it but also how your employees live it right they need to be the first line of defense of the
18:14brand and uh and we work with them work with their teams to be able to provide that level of training and and brand
18:21that change internally nice I love that and that role of training seems so important at
18:27every level whether it’s a Rebrand moment or indeed you know like a new Joiner coming in um again using this
18:33sort of idea that brand is there as a business mechanism rather than just the marketing mechanism you know to sort of
18:39say this is who we are um that feels really really important um I maybe Lo
18:46back around to you here Digger on on stuff like because you mentioned in your last answer templates and um elements of
18:53stuff like that so would you be able to sort of share some of the most useful me mechanisms and tactics that you’ve sort
19:01of seen other companies doing when it comes to actually sort of rolling out and getting the rest of the team
19:08involved in in this because I I think we’ve already reframed this in in
19:13today’s session from policing to inspiring which I I find really really
19:18helpful in the first instance hopefully take some of the heat from it but in terms of those practical sort of yeah
19:24this is a collateral where are you seeing people succeed um um I think I have a pretty good example from because
19:31we’re kind of in the middle of uh rolling out a new visual identity ourselves so we’re in the sck of it uh
19:38and also like we did thrilled up the new brand positioning last year I think it
19:44was really interesting because we have this offsite for the entire company and we
19:51um culture is in any company important um but I think you can tell if the
19:57brands positioning is rooted in the culture uh if people kind of
20:05um uh adopt it um and it was so interesting because we uh so we did this
20:11like brand positioning and we presented it and there was like this one word that we had somewhere in the brand
20:17positioning that somehow I guess really resonated with the culture because
20:23during that offsite it just kept coming back again and again and again so I
20:30think for me that was such like a bit of a like AA moment also it’s like oh if you manag to kind of strike that cord
20:37then people will adopt it and then you don’t have to kind of force it um because I think in the past we had
20:43things that were like yeah that’s good and everything but it didn’t really like roll off the tongue necessarily um and
20:50it’s kind of like you know you know when you know when when when you did right because then it’s effortless almost in
20:56like people like wanting to speak with those words or like use those assets or
21:03whatever and I make it sound super easy of course it’s not but I think you really need to kind of dig deep into the
21:09feelings of the brand almost um because I think if you can capture that I think
21:14you will it will become so much easier for anyone that needs to be these
21:20ambassadors as you said Patrick uh of the brand to like feel proud of it and like live it uh truly um so I think
21:28that’s kind of maybe like at the strategy um part of the process and then
21:33of course yes it’s about having like really clear simple documentation again having the
21:40materials um giving people just enough creativity like freedom of creativity in
21:46in what they create uh but then I think then you’re
21:52just set up in a way that makes it easier also for the brand Team to become
21:57enablers and not police um and then also to just like I think as
22:03as marketing and and branding people you also have to realize that you have to let go of like control issues that you
22:10may have uh there’s no way that you can control it and you just have to kind of like let it Let it Loose a little bit
22:16too um so I think that’s something that you need to just accept as part of the
22:21journey as well h on and what I find fascinating about the spirit of this conversation so
22:28far is that coming into it there is a Temptation sometimes I
22:34think to jump to very tactical things you know and sort of say so what you
22:39need is a tone of voice document you need brand guidelines everybody knows
22:44that yeah well maybe I don’t know but you know I think what’s what’s really interesting in the conversation with the
22:50both of you is you’ve both gravitated to answers which have been about the
22:55feeling of the brand and how people show up to present the brand and as ambassadors of the brand um this is how
23:03we would like to show up for one another and for the company that we
23:08represent and I think that’s a really interesting reframe on this conversation because there’s a temptation to sort of
23:14say your top 10 tips for um brand consistency are create those documents
23:20but actually what we’re speaking about here is how can we get people on board on an emotional level not really a
23:26practical level but the practicality follows from the emotion um which I
23:32think is a really fascinating point that maybe wouldn’t have been um obvious
23:37right from the beginning it’s like that Maya Angelou quote right that people remember how you made them feel not what
23:45said or whatever it is but I mean I think that’s the sentiment of brand in general too it’s about evoking emotions
23:51to some extent even though we tend to not really like to talk about that
23:56because it is it is weird that it is both that and also so business critical
24:02at the same time so it is that it has that Dynamic which is a bit weird that it’s very emotional but it’s also very
24:08business driven somehow um and I guess that makes it hard to talk about okay
24:15it’s both really for sure and it’s both it’s both and uh you need to have the
24:21emotion in in place first I think it gives you more Buy in it galvanizes the
24:27culture and then when it culture is United employees are more productive they’re more creative and of course that
24:34impacts business as well so you have you have I don’t know uh better campaigns
24:39better products uh you’re more profitable because everybody’s just so engaged and mobilized around that idea
24:48that feeling of the brand and that is internally first right and then of course that exudes
24:55externally yeah yeah for sure but and I think that’s um it’s it’s a fascinating
25:01thing and there’s a comment that’s coming into the chat feature here today um I’m not going to say it out loud cuz this goes on to a recording afterwards
25:08so if they don’t want to uh have their name in the recording I want to make sure that that’s respected um but I
25:14think it’s really interesting and maybe we could speak through this a little bit uh so the chat comment came through and
25:20said I have trouble getting the teams to sit up and listen uh getting them to realize how important this is we have it
25:26in place uh on on a one drive with all the templates logos Etc I wrote a
25:32governance stock to help the teams know uh why we’re doing all of this and the reasoning why Etc but how do we get them
25:39to read it and and understand it and this is the Crux of what we’ve been speaking about really I think so far um
25:47is it face to- face meetings is it full company meetings um they’ve got a business of5 people so this is a tough
25:54part of their job so I don’t know I mean do either of you and and that’s a
25:59terrible way to sort of start a question on the zoom like I think I do I think I have some thoughts thoughts to do first
26:05of all of course I do think that you have to put as much love into how you
26:13present the documentation and the brand governance documents and everything as you did in creating the brands um so
26:22that needs to kind of that love and effort that went into that needs to Exede like in in the documentation as as
26:28well so that’s why maybe a one drive is like it it just sits there with all the other you know documents that you have
26:35absolutely so maybe it’s like also giving more visual cues I think helps also in like showing what it looks like
26:42in it in the wild basically uh to give examples because I don’t think it’s top of mind for people
26:49who are not in marketing or branding that like the brand is everywhere it’s on the you know the invoices we send to
26:55like everything so so maybe just like giving more of a like showing the brand world to them uh show and don’t tell but
27:04then the second part is do tell because I think that there’s an element of Storytelling that needs to go into it um
27:11where I know um I worked with this company in the past they do uh brand
27:17positioning uh is their like Niche um and basically they also work with rolling that out internally in since
27:23it’s a super tiny consultancy and they always write a
27:29onepage uh story like really like a literal like fairy tale story almost
27:36um that they then share with all of the teams internally because it’s kind of like this old school also very deep
27:43human need to kind of get something put into a bigger context or visualized for
27:50you whether that’s through words or pictures or whatever it is but it’s really not just presenting facts but
27:56rather like kind conveying a message and I think that’s what you kind of I think that helps um and I think for the person
28:04who asked the question maybe try that and try to like tell the story to to get
28:10people to understand and like why did we do this and like why does this matter and and then use like show what it looks
28:17like um that’s what I would try at least I love that as a that’s a really really
28:22fabulous mechanism thank you so much for sharing that um Patrick you I really liked it you know having very bite-size
28:31information to help people understand in a very very um short amount of time what the
28:38brand is about and this links back with the clarity and the Simplicity um that we do and and and the
28:45reason that we believe simplifying the message and having a very focused point of view helps is because it gets into
28:52people’s minds faster and stays there for longer plain and simple right and that then that is why you’re able to
28:59then create a very strong brand because it becomes memorable it’s easy for you to digest and maybe in those situations
29:07having those having those bite-sized uh in you know informations um about what
29:13needs to be done what needs to be achieved uh can uh can be can be can be very impactful I think the other thing
29:20comes to mind is the absence of that right because most of the times you’re going to say okay fine it’s there but I
29:26don’t have the time to actually do a road show and present to every single person or people are busy in their own
29:33calls or meetings or whatever you know if they they’re not they don’t have any incentive of going to the one drive and
29:41uh and finding the file there but then what’s the absence of it you know what’s the in in the in the opposite
29:47scenario if you don’t actually be obsessed about the brand and getting
29:52your teams engaged in in behind the brand you don’t have a brand M you have
29:59a commodity and then or or you have a schizophrenic expression of the brand I
30:05don’t know what’s worse right if you have a commodity you’re you’re you’re not fighting you’re not fighting for
30:10Value you’re fighting for price you’re fighting for cost and then it’s a race to the bottom you had you add no you add
30:16no value you have you have nothing to command over over a customer or or a
30:21consumer right you completely erode the value of the brand if you don’t protect if if and it’s that’s for everybody to
30:30do right absolutely you know couldn’t agree more you know couldn’t agree more and
30:36and this is why this stuff matters right it’s um it’s important it’s really
30:41really important and there’s a bunch of questions that have already come into the Q&A and and we’re going to uh make
30:48sure to get to those as well um but I want to pick up on some of the chat comments that have come in because um I
30:53think in the spirit of a lot of the conversation that we’ve had so far so we’ve had one from here from Sarah who
31:00on a very practical level said we had visual cues in our group Channel and set a weekly reminders uh where everything
31:07was stored and then some hero mentions of the brand from previous week weekly tips on how to speak in our brand ton of
31:14voice Etc um and what I loved in particular about that comment was that
31:21there’s um Sarah used the word hero mentions and I think again that sort of
31:27elevates and looks to showcase the positive elements and get people enthusiastic about this rather than
31:34again using that word of pleasing and and sort of ticking people off um
31:39because in fact the top question in the Q&A right now is how do you handle those conversations with colleagues who think
31:46they are right when it comes to branding but are actually really wrong and I think there’s like these these moments
31:53of celebrating people is probably going to be a really really important part of it you know it where it’s done well
31:59getting people involved in the story um all of these things um they all feel very very important um so thank you for
32:06sharing those tips Sarah um the chat by the way is always lovely
32:12and there’s some really really great tips coming in from the community as well so thank you all so much for sharing um as ever you’re just
32:20wonderful um so let’s um let’s take a couple more
32:25questions for me just because I’ve I’ve got a couple about like evolving the brand because I think
32:31that’s probably important to recognize when brand consistency is actually not helping us and that we need to change
32:38but then we’ll head straight into the community Q&A afterwards so folks if you have any questions uh do drop them in
32:44the Q&A and we’ll make sure to prioritize those in the rest of the time that we have um so Patrick if I come to
32:50you first um I’d just love to know and I’d love to know as well from
32:57from you Digger in the moment what was the prompting point to sort of redevelop the visual identity uh for you but
33:03Patrick how do we start to think about evolving Brands and and because we’re very much a proponent here of a brand
33:11showing up in the same shape consistently but how do we know when to sort of start flexing on on this kind of
33:16stuff that’s the key word it’s um it’s flexibility right and flexibility within
33:24the framework that’s that’s how we call it you know there there’s there’s gu lines and and and things that you got to
33:29respect about the expression of the brand but there’s still that 10% 15%
33:36that that should Flex ac across different channels or even as time
33:42passes right you gotta you got to adjust course um mainly according to the
33:48different different needs of the channels or the different needs of of the audience that might have evolved as well so uh just knowing that you you you
33:57you got to bacon a little wiggle room for for the for the brand to live
34:02and breathe right it’s not a static thing it shouldn’t be even in the beginning of the conversation we were
34:07talking about iconic Brands being built across decades and sometimes even centuries of years they still have minor
34:16adaptations and uh in and and they had shown flexibility to evolve a little bit
34:21as well whil maining consistency and I I’ll follow up on that because there’s a
34:28um there’s an obvious follow-up question in my mind which is how do you know what that 10 or 15% is because um I could
34:35imagine if I was a brand Guardian getting quite grumpy about that 10 or 15% but I might be misplaced because I
34:42don’t understand the Nuance of Tik Tok where actually a slightly more
34:47unhinged brand sort of presence is is beneficial and native to that platform
34:53so do you have experience in sort of like knowing where that 10 or 15% is
34:58because that feels quite important most of the times it’s Channel specific so where that brand is going to be lift
35:06where it’s going to where you’re going to be able to find that brand and interact with it of course in digital
35:11you can have so many different formats you mentioned Tik Tok is different than than than Facebook that it’s is different than LinkedIn that it’s
35:18different than the format that you would have on YouTube and and so on and so forth so you gota you gota you got to
35:24know the rules of engagement for each of those different channels it’s easier a little bit when you’re talking about out
35:30of home or a print ad or or a static campaign uh where it’s much easier for
35:36you to control or even have some sort of agency or of the Assets in those in those moments but digitally yeah then
35:45then you gota you gota got yeah you gota you got to follow you got to follow the directions of each
35:51of the channels nice that’s perfect and and diger you I mean it sounds like you’re going through
35:58this exact moment you know and so this is maybe more of a a word associated
36:03with iterating rather than evolving but what was the thought process and and
36:08feel free to share as much or as little as you want because I haven’t asked your permission here to sort of share the story of of this refresh but
36:17um how did you end up in this place where you’re like actually a visual identity this is the moment now to kind
36:23of look at this and and evolve the brand or iterate the brand I think a couple of reasons obviously I
36:31think if your company like ours were scale up we’ve been around for 11-ish
36:36years and you grow so fast and then you kind of enter new markets and then I
36:44mean things change so quickly so sometimes you kind of evolve one part
36:49and then you realize oh I need this part also needs to kind of match this so uh I
36:55think that was very simply put the situation that we found ourselves in that it’s um oh we need to evolve how we
37:02talk about the product and how we talk about this and then okay that needs to be matched with like the visual language
37:09that goes with that and so it was kind of like and then I think realized okay let’s do like a bit of a bigger take on
37:16all of this and and roll that out but I mean it’s um leading up to this
37:21conversation I um I was actually thinking a lot about like what companies have managed to be cons consistent over
37:28time and yes you have the apples and every one where you you can see there’s something so distinctive and it’s it’s
37:35always tempting to use those examples because they’re so successful um and I was trying to think
37:43of a company that’s maybe not as big and huge and successful as a brand as as apple and it’s it is hard because I
37:50think most companies or most brands at some point kind of need to do a bit of a
37:55refresh and kind of like a redo uh of who they are and to to stay relevant
38:02there few I I found it hard to find companies like there aren’t that many
38:08examples of companies that are just like very consistent over time obviously I immediately because I’m Swedish and I
38:14love them I thought idea because I think they’ve done an amazing job when it comes to their brand and being very consistent over time but you know it’s
38:24like if you think of like smaller companies and um I mean you see also like the car
38:29industry struggling right now and then some of them coming out with new brands that it’s just kind of this like
38:35fireworks now but I wonder like when are they going to change that again so um so
38:42I think it’s it’s this um it goes back to
38:47having a very clear sense of what your core is I think and I think that’s kind
38:53of that’s what sets a company like apple who very much has design at their core
38:59or Ikea or whoever I think that’s kind of part of the success and obviously there are other brands that’s that live
39:05that too where where it’s it’s really having something it goes back to your question about fixed versus flexibility
39:11but having something that is so uniquely you kind of or something that’s very true to who you are as a company and a
39:19brand uh and then you can kind of that can evolve over time uh and and as
39:24Patrick said also of course you have to adapt to the content like context is everything for a brand as well uh but
39:30just like go into the room with your own personality but maybe you know a version
39:36of it and it you know that’s it’s such a important point because I I find the
39:42answer so interesting in the context of the answer itself but also the wider conversation because you’ve pointed to a
39:49moment where perhaps this language is too strong to describe your situation
39:55but like where the the current in uh doesn’t serve you as well as it
40:01possibly could and um the the factors which you discussed there were quite
40:07practical ones you know so we are a scaleup and uh we uh you know needed to
40:13make this adjustment for this new market or we needed to adjust it in this way because it it was you know not serving
40:19Us in in this way so there was quite a practical thing there but then it struck me that one of your earlier answers um
40:27was about the emotional one where um you were speaking about listening to the
40:32feedback that you were getting from folks and those moments where people really resonated with with your brand
40:39and sort of went oh yeah that you know this was the offsite moment and this was the word and you know that progression
40:45as well you know there’s an emotional progression or there can be a practical progression which says this represents
40:51who we are right now and so I don’t know I I found both of your insights there
40:56just really really interesting you know allowing the 10 to 15% but also being
41:02vigilant about these things on a practical or an emotional level sort of asking the question to these represent
41:07us still I think that’s that’s really really fabulous thank you both like I found that really really helpful um
41:16let’s let’s head to the community’s uh Q&A um because they are the most important people here uh today so we we
41:23should make sure to uh to to make sure to answer those questions um folks um the last encouragement for
41:30me uh in this session will be just to give a thumbs up to any questions that you would love us to prioritize um
41:36because we will um so in the Q&A feature just found uh in in your little
41:43toolbar so uh the first question comes from an Marie um and I’ve already
41:49referenced it but it’s it’s that awkward one so uh how do you handle those
41:54conversations with colleagues who think they’re right when it it comes to branding but actually uh really wrong
42:02um Patrick’s looking to the heavens uh right now and and I don’t mean to be cruel uh but I’m I’m gonna come to you
42:09first on this so ride or wrong is subjective right but
42:15I think um is being able to adapt how you going to reach different
42:21stakeholders by knowing what’s important to them so the difficulty
42:28for a particular set of stakeholder might be that that person thinks that they’re a designer and they they know
42:33how to kind of you know go about and change and you know because they have they think that they have taste and they
42:39put things together and they look nice so they might say okay fine you don’t need to lecture me on this I I know what
42:44I’m doing that is one thing another thing is if you go to um I don’t know a
42:50business meeting and there’s the sea level there’s a a sales director and the person is skeptical of brand hey this
42:58this Mumbo jumble doesn’t help me at all all I need to do is sell more so that person doesn’t know that they can use
43:05brand as an instrument of business to then help him have an easier job an
43:11easier lift because he’s he’s he’s he’s leveraging a stronger brand so it’s just
43:16knowing which levers to pull uh when you’re approaching different audiences inside the company what’s important to
43:23them instead of you just trying to push your agenda because somebody might not might not understand it absolutely
43:31bang on we’re doing a marketing job um in you know so I really really love that
43:37and D do you have anything to answer uh add uh there at all or um no mean I
43:42think Patrick had some really good points uh I would like obviously it depends on who you talk to as Patrick
43:48said um sometimes that’s also an internal discussion like in marketing even
43:55because it’s it’s like Patrick said like opinions are subjective and people might
44:00think um so I think it and I think someone someone in the community uh
44:06called that out also uh which was what did they call it like a hero uh yeah
44:12which I like I like that idea of maybe in like maybe agreeing on what good
44:18looks like sometimes that like unlocks certain discussions I think as well if
44:23you can kind of talk about like but what’s the ideal State here or like what do we think think what would good look like and then you can maybe like work
44:30your way back from there and or if you can establish that baseline or
44:35understanding in the group uh then uh then I think that helps but obviously
44:41there will also be stakeholders in any company that might not they might have opinions but it’s
44:49maybe not also their job to decide and then I think it’s just like sure I’ll listen to your opinions but in the end
44:55maybe it’s not their decision I I mean I think it’s it’s always good to listen it’s always good to have very close
45:01relationships with any kind of um especially customer facing teams to get
45:06get that input but in the end I think it’s also marketing and the brand team’s job uh so um I think you have to like
45:15listen but also yeah you don’t you don’t have to you don’t have to take everything on
45:21either all the time I think you could have some pride in your you know in your role learn what your expertise is in
45:29this area too and like know why you made certain decisions because obviously you did not make them because you just think
45:36that color is cool it’s plays a role and it has like so
45:42yeah absolutely well marketing H you know sorry business is a team sport right you know and so it’s it’s exactly
45:50that you know that there’s a humility in um opening your ears but there’s also
45:56as exactly as you say you know a pride in in sort of knowing that these things are there for a reason and and and
46:03that’s also good to carry with you um I
46:08I love this question that’s coming from James um and I’ll head back over to you as well Digger on this which is that
46:14often when we speak about Brands we speak about imagery and uh logos and and stuff like that but
46:22James is asking here about the best way to help your team understand the brand language so the words that we use when
46:30we show up uh out there in the world so I can either ask you from a best
46:36practice perspective or even a personal perspective here on how do you help
46:42teams understand the the language uh that we should be using when we’re showing
46:47up well obviously you do need to have guidelines for that but I don’t think
46:53guidelines guidelines in itself is not going to not going to do the job I think you need again to have something that
47:00makes sense like it it needs to resonate with people and that goes back to the whole feeling discussion again about
47:07like people feeling like this is like the right tone of voice for us um and then I think
47:16um we also have like one of our uh Cooperators she’s lovely uh she has like
47:22a little copy clinic on slack uh where she gives people like little bite-sized
47:28and I think goes back to something you said before Patrick bite-sized courses in like this is how we write this and
47:33she does it really well so it kind of becomes like fun and more like just like
47:39hey you know that we do this so it’s kind of like a little you know she teaches people but in a very nice uh
47:45friendly way and um I think that helps um but obviously yes like it has to be
47:52you know people need to be able to grasp it and and feel that it’s that it Mak sense otherwise it’s going to be really
47:59hard uh but I agree you tend to think of like logos and and imagery and I think
48:05in general I do I’ve had this conversation a lot with our creative director that brands are not like a brands are a Vibe and you have to
48:12understand that that’s what it is it’s a Vibe it’s not you know like actual
48:17things necessarily and you have to I guess this is probably not a very helpful answer to
48:24the person who asked the question but I guess you need to convey what the vibe
48:31isense if you can do that in any way I think that helps if if people know what the vibe is uh but that’s I mean I think
48:38that’s essentially what you people need to understand the vibe yeah that you know yeah we know what you mean and and
48:44you know because we can’t go through the dictionary and sort of say we’re not going to use this word word but we are going to use this one you know um yeah I
48:52think I think you could have you could have principles that then apply to how you how you speak right you can
49:00have some tips and tricks um you can have before and after examples so this
49:06is corent State brand written without any specific tone of voice when you
49:11apply it see how it looked see how it changed um and and what are the mechanisms that we did in order to to
49:20create that change so we have a very stark contrast of before and after and I think it’s it’s coherence right right
49:27because language is is visually but also verbally right it’s you got to you got to marry both and Brands brands are
49:33about communication so it doesn’t matter you know and if you don’t have if if you just go all in on the visuals and you
49:40don’t pay attention to the verbal is you’re not going to have a you know a strong brand as you could have had so uh
49:48yeah it’s it’s super important it’s a great question actually it’s it’s it’s it’s a fabulous I obsess over this
49:54particular element of it because as established I am terrible at drawing but like you know I’m not a visual character
50:01but no I’ll give I’ll give you an example just just think of Ole you know Oly drinks you know it’s it’s a
50:06beautiful tone of voice it’s quirky you know you’ve seen in the packaging how they write um liquid death water you
50:14know Murder your thirst it’s it’s rebellious you know it’s irreverent it’s toal voice it’s
50:21beautiful it’s amazing it cuts through right it’s not squeaky clean nestly
50:26water you know it’s different and absolutely you know just purely voice
50:33purely voice 100% I I couldn’t agree more I get I get pretty you know I
50:39really enjoy this element of what we do and I think your point about principles
50:44uh there is is really really helpful I mean at TMM one of ours is is just about
50:50being elevating and so you’ll never sort of hear us sort of shout down people we always speak about the good example
50:56rather than sort of of shouting at the bad example and and the language that sort of comes associated with that is is
51:02really really important and so um I think that’s a great point and one that I can relate to as well and how we run
51:08our business um Patrick let’s take this one uh to you if it’s okay so the next
51:16question comes in from Melanie who asks um what is the best way to approach uh
51:21stakeholders who have no experience in branding or marketing but in insist on
51:27their personal opinions being acted on um and we’ve had a version of this
51:32question but it’s I feel like it’s a slightly different one because here it sounds a bit more directive it’s like
51:38you have to do this rather than I have an opinion you know and I may or may not actually believe it but this is like
51:44founder CEO boss Vibes I think the key word there is acted upon so it’s one
51:51thing is to hear their opinions and to welcome thoughts and to collaborate
51:57another thing is if that person has an expectation just because they voiced out some comment that actually is going to
52:04be acted upon and I think this is where you have to draw the line and this is where you have to say okay fine look at
52:09the end of the day I’m running this and I’m the expert in this but I’m going to listen to you and I’m going to
52:16understand not just you but also the different perspectives of the business because ultimately it’s going to help me make a better informed decision for the
52:23business right that’s about it um I think there’s there’s there are
52:28different ways that you can position it as you mentioned it’s not about the you know being the the the the
52:36definitive um I don’t know source of truth that the
52:42person exactly but showing that you’re you’re willing to accommodate that you’re willing to listen um but at the
52:48end of the day you know it’s it’s you and your team who’s going to make the decision absolutely love it I I think
52:54that firmness is so low yeah I mean just to build on that I think um sometimes it also helps to kind
53:01of um maybe explain a little bit more to people like give people more insights
53:08because I think a lot of PE a lot of times people also assume things uh and they assume that it works a certain way
53:14or they just see like a sliver of what you’re doing and and just more transparency sometimes also helps I feel
53:23one of the things that I did last year um was I created a deck where I kind of tried to break down how marketing Works
53:30in our company um which I called how the sausage is made so we started calling
53:36sausage Tech not a beautiful name for it it was actually quite helpful because it I was just like really like very basic
53:43like okay this is we do this and it cost this much money and this is what you get down like that helped actually I felt
53:50because it gave people more context basically and and and just shed more light on like the bigger picture of how
53:58it works uh so I think sometimes just transparency like like upfront transparency helps also to share what
54:04you’re actually doing uh if you want to kind of maybe preempt some of those
54:10questions but if you’re asking for budgets you’re have those questions that’s that’s not gonna go away so rce
54:18yourself that’s gonna be the case anyway yeah I love that also those situations
54:23that people don’t understand anything about brand you have to really take a 101 course like what is a brand what is
54:30not a brand brand is not a logo right brand is not a topography or those types of things so that’s just you know the
54:36external manifestation of the brand the brand is about this this and this and you got to bring them along it’s always
54:41fun at least I love it you know what you you’ve both uh done something which is which is fabulous
54:48because you’ve somehow managed to answer the first question which asked but then the next question um in in the Q&A was
54:56ask asking uh how do you explain to those who are not familiar with modern marketing best practices why consistency
55:02on Clarity and brand voice is important so you managed to answer both of the top questions uh in one answer so um I’m
55:09going to I’m going to clap my hands at your competence uh today so so um thank
55:15you both I I really really appreciate uh that answer I think that was that was
55:20fabulous um could I just had some followup on it though because I love that presentation on um how the sausage
55:27is made were you surprised by any of the questions that you got or any of the things where the penny dropped in a
55:35moment where you were surprised that the penny would have dropped um yeah I mean
55:42yes in some areas but I think that that says more about me maybe uh or well I
55:48think it just goes to show again that you just see things from your own perspective and you assume I assumed
55:54that people would know more um uh and then when you take a step back and realize well why would they it’s not
55:59their job to know exactly how marketing works so so it’s a good learning experience for me too I love that even
56:06just as a as a quote we were laughing before we started today’s session that we needed lots of five to 10 seconds
56:12Snippets and you know I like the one that it’s not their job to understand how marketing works is is that’s a good
56:18one so thank you um as we wrap up in the last two minutes um the session’s been
56:24fabulous so thank you both um let’s take the last one from from Sarah so Sarah
56:30asks um how would you start moving towards a more consistent brand approach in a company that’s been using it uh
56:37very inconsistently what would be uh the best first step uh for each of you and um and
56:45then that will be us for the hour so um the best first step in bringing consistency to
56:52inconsistency um Patrick if we start with with you uh start small but do it
57:00often I think it’s not about boiling the ocean because otherwise it it it can get
57:05overwhelming and then eventually you’re going to drop out and not do it but uh but look for for a few things you know
57:12core things that are non-negotiables and enforce them first and then as you start
57:18as or as an organization to get used to it then you’re able to kind of you know
57:24expand a little bit more of of the things that you want to keep consistent on but I I would say start small love
57:30that there you go I think that such a great answer I don’t have anything to add I mean that’s
57:36probably what I would say too like um obviously it’s it’s about just like
57:43little releases or Snippets or bites Tapas whatever you want to call it that
57:48you feed people with more good you know brand pieces uh that enable people to
57:55use it corly and then you can hopefully also um Sunset the old inconsistent
58:04stuff that’s perfect um brand Tapas as Sarah says in the chat which is fabulous
58:10um thank you both thank you both so much like there’s been so much useful stuff
58:15today um shared and there’s a there’s a comment in the chat feature amongst a lot of thank yous uh from bethan who
58:22said this has been brilliant I’ve multiple pages of notes um which is just so fabulous so thank you both for
58:29sharing the thoughts in your brain and the experience that you’ve you’ve both earned um so hard so I really really
58:36appreciate it and um thank you as ever to the community um you are unbelievably
58:42amazing and and so thank you for supporting each other as you have uh in the chat and for contributing questions
58:48I hope that we’ve really helped you bring some brand consistency uh to to everything you do um so with all that
58:56said um just a a big big uh well first of all an encouragement to connect with our speakers today so um if you haven’t
59:03already uh do say hello um but also a big big thank you to all of our sponsors
59:10for bringing these sessions like we wouldn’t be able to run our community uh
59:15if it wasn’t for these incredible folks um and these are brands on the screen but there are human beings behind each
59:21of these Brands who who uh support us and make sure that we can continue to
59:27support you so a big big thank you to them as well um we’ll be back next
59:32Tuesday uh with another session uh all about rebranding and the mistakes that
59:37folks make uh when doing so but in the meantime we’ll see you next week and uh
59:42thank you so much uh today to everyone involved take care bye bye take care thank you appreciate it
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