Key Takeaways
- B2B Marketing is Becoming More Human-Centric:
- B2B marketing is increasingly similar to B2C as businesses recognize that they’re still selling to humans, even if it’s in a corporate context. The shift focuses on creating meaningful, emotional connections with people behind the business titles, understanding their challenges, and tailoring messaging accordingly.B2B buyers are looking for solutions that address their real-world problems, and marketers need to appeal to both logic and emotion in their messaging.
- Building Long-Term Brand and Short-Term Sales:
- It’s crucial for B2B marketers to balance between long-term brand-building efforts and short-term sales activation. Brand-building builds trust and keeps your company top-of-mind, while short-term campaigns push for immediate results.Data shows that a 50-50 split between brand-building and sales activation tends to work best for B2B businesses
- Importance of Thought Leadership and Educational Content:
- B2B buyers are often looking for valuable insights and solutions to their problems. Thought leadership content, such as blog posts, webinars, and whitepapers, can position your brand as an expert in your field and build trust with your audience.Companies like VEED have successfully used educational content to dominate SEO and expand their reach in their niche
- Leveraging Personality-Driven Growth and Influencer Marketing:
- B2B brands are increasingly using personality-led marketing strategies, leveraging their internal experts and external influencers to build trust and engagement with their audience. When done well, this strategy makes sales conversations easier and more natural by establishing relationships with potential clients before they even engage.This approach is not just for executives—employees across the company can contribute to building the brand through personal engagement on platforms like LinkedIn
- Multichannel Presence and Consistency:
- It’s important to be present across multiple platforms, but the messaging and content should be tailored to each. LinkedIn remains the go-to platform for B2B marketing, but platforms like YouTube, Instagram, and even TikTok are becoming increasingly relevant.Consistency in messaging and branding across all platforms helps to build trust and familiarity with your audience
- The Power of Community and Peer-to-Peer Engagement:
- Building or participating in communities around your industry can have a profound impact on brand visibility and engagement. Many successful B2B brands focus on fostering communities where customers, partners, and industry experts can share knowledge and learn from each other.Notion, for example, leveraged user-generated content and community-driven growth to become a leader in its space without major ad spending(ANDY&LUAN The secrets o…).
Tools and Practical Tips:
- Content Creation and Collaboration Tools:
- Plannable: Ideal for content collaboration and scheduling across teams, ensuring that your social media efforts are consistent and well-organized across platforms.Canva: Great for creating visual content that can be adapted for different social media platforms, helping you maintain consistent branding.
- Video Content and SEO:
- Video content is becoming increasingly important in B2B marketing. Platforms like YouTube are underutilized by B2B marketers, despite their power to engage audiences.Keywords Everywhere: A tool that helps you identify relevant keywords for your video content, boosting your SEO efforts.
- Building Employee Advocacy:
- Encourage employees to participate in creating and sharing content, boosting both personal and brand visibility. This can increase trust and engagement on platforms like LinkedIn, where employees can share their expertise.
These takeaways emphasize a more human-centered, community-driven approach to B2B marketing on social media, focusing on long-term brand-building, personalized engagement, and leveraging multiple platforms effectively.
Full transcript (captured by AI, may contain errors)
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, it’s so lovely to see you all here. I had forgotten that Andy is actually in that intro video so you’re getting two lots of Andy today which is a lovely lovely thing and thank you all so much already for popping in that chat feature. Where you’re watching from I’ve seen folks in Houston so hello to Melissa, Cambridge, Leicester, Henley, Manchester, Petersfield, Baal in Switzerland, South Africa, Liverpool, Oxford, King’s Cross, St Neots, it keeps on going. So thank you all so, so much for tuning in. I hope that we can really, really help you out today. If you haven’t already, while you are in that chat feature, we can see a bunch of messages that are coming in, such as folks saying hello from Lisbon, who are being sent to hosts and panellists only, which means that only Luann, and I can see the messages not the whole community. So if you head into your chat feature what you’ll be able to see is a toggle and if you switch that toggle from hosts and panelists to everyone then everyone will be able to see your messages and we can get going. While you’re doing that it would be really lovely for you to not only post where you’re watching from but also your favourite thing about working in B2B. Now I think that’s a challenge to get some positivity in the room today but I think that’ll be really really lovely and actually the type of thing that Andy and Luanne and I can refer back to as we go throughout the rest of today’s session. We’ve got Rachel there saying innovation which is fabulous. Our speakers today, let me introduce you to them. We’ve got two wonderful wonderful people and I’m not sure why Andy’s picture’s in pink and Luanne’s isn’t, it’s just the way it is. Nonetheless their LinkedIn profiles are there with the QR codes. Andy is a long-time friend of the Marketing Meetup, way back to his Content Cal days, but now works at Adobe. We’ve got Luan, who is just like a speaker in demand. One of six speaking opportunities this week, which is really quite ridiculous, but absolutely fantastic. Two wonderful human beings who are here to help you you on the broad topic of B2B social. Hopefully by the end of today, you would have learned something. But if you want to get something more specific, then after today’s presentation, because we have a presentation element, then do use the Q&A feature, which is found down below. And we’ll answer your questions, not just the material that Luan and Andy are going to present today. Before we get going, I want to say a big, big thank you to this week’s featured sponsor, so the Switch featured sponsor is Plannable. Plannable are a content collaboration creation tool, which enable you to coordinate all of your social media activity across your various platforms, across your various teams, and make it super easy to do so. They’ve got a bunch of really great, free, accessible, no-login-required tools on their website, and there’s one example of this QR code here, which enables you to be writer’s block with some really handy prompts. So if you want to check out Plannable, please do. Also, a big, big thank you to Frontify, Cambridge Martin College, Exclaimer, Scorap, and Redgate, all of whom are incredible sponsors and have been supporting us for a long, long time. There is so many lovely, lovely comments here in the chat about your favorite things to do in B2B. I like Tristan’s here who says getting creative with supposedly dry material, and Jenny mirrors that by saying taking things that are viewed as boring to market and bringing them to life, which I think is really, really lovely. With all that said, that’s my introduction done. Just to acknowledge Marie’s final comment, who says, just the memes with the French kiss emoji, which is a fantastic time to hand over to Luanne and Andy for your presentation on B2B Social. Thank you for taking the time.
Speaker 2: We’ve missed out memes, Andy, shall we? We give up.
Speaker 3: Exactly. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for spending a bit of your afternoon, morning, evening, wherever you are in the world with us. And as Jo mentioned, the very broad church of B2B we’re going to cover today. And it’s worthwhile saying from the outset, everyone on this call will have a huge amount of experience in B2B. Whilst we’ll give our perspectives, by no means is this going to be a step-by-step, do these five things and you will succeed. There’s enough marketing nonsense content out there to say do these five things and you will win. The reality is marketing is a lot more nuanced and what I loved seeing in the chat just a moment ago is that there’s a lot of reference to how human B2B is, like finding out the specific challenges of the individual, being able to solve problems for real people and that is the nuance in B2B and we hope we’re going to get into some of this today. So yes we’re going to talk about some principles, yes we’re going to share some examples of people that are doing it really well, but it’s just worthwhile saying like we’re all human here, we’re all always learning and we’ve got a huge amount to learn from each other too, so you know you won’t hear us saying do these things and you will win, but some fundamental principles we’re going to cover today. Now Luanne, do you want to do a bit more intro yourself for we go in and kind of set the scene for today. Hello, yeah, and just in case anyone
Speaker 2: is wondering why we’re doing this together, Andy and I have been presenting webinars together for over four years now, a monthly social media update session, so we’re used to presenting together in a planned but unrehearsed way, but we do know what we’re going to cover this afternoon. I’m a marketing consultant, have been running my own business for 15 years, But before that, I did work in client side, B2B and also agency side as well. I’m very familiar with being the only marketer amongst the sales team of 15 plus and the role and the challenges that bring. And I was lucky enough to work within an organization that grew from three to 60 million turnover in five years. So we were fast growth. We were winning awards. And I like to think that marketing played its role in that. Today, I still work a lot in B2B. I work with manufacturers, financial services, law firms, but I do do some B2C as well. So yeah, we’ve got lots of ideas to bring you today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for me, you’ve probably, you might have seen me before, and yeah, I’m sorry, I’m going to apologise for that, because if you’ve seen me on another marketing meetup, I’m sorry that you have to listen to me again. But I’m Andy, my whole life has been a B2B, I’m really quite that boring. I’m very one dimensional, and a total nerd for this kind of stuff. My background has always been in sales and marketing and building businesses and trying to be as lean as possible in scaling businesses of which the last company I co-founded eight years ago got sold to Adobe and now I work for Adobe which is kind of nuts and a very interesting different perspective in B2B marketing which I’m going to touch on in a bit. Anyway right let’s start with some positivity because B2B marketing is changing and I think a lot of the humans that that we have on this conversation today already get this, the mentions of human, the mentions of being specific, the mentions of creatively solving challenges like Tristan, your comment, that is what this is all about. And I’m hugely positive and very bullish on the future of where B2B marketing is going. There seems to be a broader understanding that it’s becoming a little bit more like B2C as it always should have been, right? It’s just selling to humans. They just happen to have the budget from somewhere else. And I think that is starting to get understood by more businesses. We’re gonna go into the nuances of what that actually means, but what the kind of downside, the flip of that is that there’s a bigger chasm opening up between the people that really, the businesses that really get it and really understand what marketing looks like in 2024 versus those that are still trying to chase short-term revenue gains, don’t really understand the difference between demand creation and demand capture. And we’re gonna speak a lot about that today. I think there’ll probably be a lot of nodding heads in the room, but we’re also going to get something a bit more practical towards the end and start talking about how do we tell a better story to executives and C-suite and such, so we can really help others see the same things that we do too. So with that, talking about seeing the same things that we do too, we’re going to play, I think, let’s play this in a bingo style, shall we, Luanne? Which of these do you hear most frequently. So Luanne, why don’t you cover some bits on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Andy and I got together, you know, what are the things that we hear as B2B marketers when we’re working internally in organisations? Growth is a binary outcome driven by the same marketing actions. Put the numbers in the chat if any of these resonate with you. The best product wins, it’s all about product. B2B, customers turn up to work and turn off their personalities. We leave ourselves outside when we walk through the office door. In B2B, people buy with logic, not emotion. And this one I particularly love. Sales teams will always save the day regardless of circumstance. People are jumping ahead to the other numbers. All that matters are leads and all leads are equal. Just get me 5,000 leads. How many LinkedIn posts do we all see every day around? Oh, I’ve generated this many leads and this many inquiries. A challenge. change. Every prospect knows who you are and what you stand for. You don’t need to do top of funnel stuff. Everyone’s heard of us already. Our USP declaring we’re different. Our people are the best. That’s enough. That’s all we need to do to set ourselves apart. And this one, we’re going to come back to this one. We’ve got a brand. We updated our logo last year. And then one of the biggest things I think as a marketer is I think some of us would like to control it and do things all by ourselves, but we can’t particularly in B2B when we’re not the subject matter experts. Marketing is only done by marketers. Sometimes everyone’s an expert at marketing, aren’t they? Everyone likes to jump in and say what you should be doing on social media and what you shouldn’t be doing on social media as well. So this is our 10 challenges. Everyone’s putting numbers in to confirm, but has anyone got anything else?
Speaker 3: And I can’t see the chat as I’m screen sharing, what are we seeing?
Speaker 2: Cringing at 8, 9 makes me sick, 2, 8, 9, 8, 5, 10, 10, 4, very true, 9 hits hard.
Speaker 3: I’m going to turn this into a B2B marketing therapy session, I think.
Speaker 2: I think we’ve got them all, B2B needs to be more professional. Actually, one of the things I picked up from the very first question Joe asked, and I really liked this one, was making a difference. That’s what we love about B2B, making a difference to an organization. It’s big. The things we talk about in B2B are, you know, there’s sometimes really big purchases. They sometimes involve lots of people in that decision making and information gathering and testing and demos and things like that. So these are big decisions. That’s kind of what makes B2B different from B2C. Definitely. Right, then we’ve got some examples.
Speaker 3: Three, three, then let’s flip it back onto the positivity, right? So we’ve kind of, you know, that’s a good opportunity just to vent some of our frustrations. But like, how realistically do we solve some of these? I think sometimes when we when we look at solving them and it’s, you know, it’s often a journey to to really make this happen within a business. And these mindset and these cultural change. We’ll talk to that later on. But sometimes just having a look at some great standout examples, and I’d love to hear the examples from anyone in the chat that thinks these businesses are doing it really well. So we’ve got about six or so examples we want to share. And I’ve kind of put on what the key differentiating factor that I would suggest from each of these examples. It’s all just from our perspective. So by no means is this the the only businesses that do it well. Gong is a brilliant example. couple of reasons why. Such a wonderful consistent approach to their message. You look at anyone who works at Gong, same LinkedIn headline and the fact it’s not just about about the headline, it’s about you know how the logo is the smallest part of this because it’s all starting with Y. Goodbye opinions, hello reality. It’s such a clear compelling message that’s audience first and you know the CEO’s here in some white sunnies. Like that isn’t your corporate CEO, this is someone that gets it right it’s this is someone that’s in a business that cares about standing out cares about differentiation right at the very top appreciate not all of us that isn’t within the gift of our control i’m sure some of us probably wouldn’t want to put a pair of shades on our ceo and put that on linkedin um but still like we can try and be change makers and try and instigate that culture bottom up. But yeah, that’s why Gong performs so, so very well.
Speaker 2: Maersk, that was your one, Luanne. This is, and this, it made me smile this morning when Joe did his post on LinkedIn, and then some people shared it, they, they use this example. Maersk, shipping containers, you know, is this interesting? Is this exciting? Look how many great pieces of content, how many followers they have. I’m sure they have nowhere near that many customers on Instagram, on Facebook, on X, on LinkedIn, going behind the scenes, videos, talking about what’s going on on the factory floor, employer brand stories, testimonials about people that work there. And they’re just, if you like this kind of image, really nice imagery as well. So B2Bs can tell
Speaker 3: great stories and they’re not boring stories. Love that. Notion is a darling child, I think, of marketing, community-led growth. And, you know, you’re a part of marketing meetups, so you get the value of community, don’t need to explain the value of that. But sometimes community can be a nebulous term. And sometimes it can seem as like a bit of a fluffy term. The reality is how they understood community and this community-led strategy has led Notion to being the fastest growing business that have put no media spend behind them. and now they have a $10 billion valuation as per their last round. And that was all based by them understanding that there was a narrative already happening across Facebook groups and Reddit and where people were sharing their own Notion templates. They understood that, they thought, well, if our product is viral in nature and people wanna help each other with their own Notion templates, let’s double down on that. And that became their primary growth strategy. So community is not just a nice to have, but it truly unlocks enterprise value for a business. Cognizant, as you can tell, most of mine’s kind of tech. So that’s the worlds I live in. So I’d love to see other examples because there is more, and it’s just in my sphere that I look at. Personality-led growth is what Cognizant is incredible at. They understand, because there are sales and marketing software, they get who they’re marketing to, and they’ve absolutely embraced personality-led growth where like the CMO has her own podcast, the chief sales officer also has his own podcast. It’s, they understand the importance of when these people walk into a room with a prospective client, it completely changes the nature of that conversation. And I’ve seen this firsthand too. Whenever a sales individual walks into a room like doing a pitch meeting with a customer and that customer is like, oh, I saw you on that podcast, or I really liked that LinkedIn post, completely changes the conversation. There is a connection that you just could not have irrespective of your sales skills. And that’s where personality led growth has, it’s not directly attributable. You’re not gonna say, oh, you posted yesterday. Did you get the deal? It doesn’t work like that. But when you embrace it fully as a business and understand it top down, you understand this truly is a differentiating factor for a business. VEED are a bit more tactical in this. VEED incredible software. I probably shouldn’t be promoting VEED given my employer at Adobe, because it’s kind of competitive, but solid. They do really good stuff. So there we go, I’m gonna share it anyway. They’ve doubled down educational content on SEO. You’ll understand this anyway, but it’s SEO isn’t just Google, right? Even though they’ve absolutely hoovered up any related search term for the Google, anything related to remove video background or reduce background noise in video, they are winning SEO on every one of those search terms. They’ve doubled down on it, have 15 people in their SEO team. They absolutely have killed it there. but they also realise that they don’t wanna be so highly leveraged in one particular vector. So they’re doing SEO on YouTube too, because actually you wanna balance that out because SEO is not just about Google, it’s about YouTube as well. And that educational content is driving a huge amount of their growth. We’ll all understand it’s cool, we’ll all understand the opportunities and upsides to that, but that’s what happens when you understand an element or a tactic that works particularly well and really double down on it. Because VEED were a startup and they still are, they’ve had to just choose a couple of channels and really go hard on it. So really good example. And then, is it okay to use my own example? Maybe, I don’t know. So the point is, is that all of this stuff, I’ve attempted to emulate all of this stuff over the last eight years of building this business. And no, I didn’t do any element of that as well as any of those examples, but understood like intrinsically what that kind of human led approach to marketing means and understanding that customers is something that you need to understand intrinsically because that’s what it’s all about. But the important thing is, and I’d happily share this as a case study. If anyone needs any support in executive meetings, just let me know, because this is the perfect case study for why this stuff actually matters outside of winning customers, because the ones that get noticed is the ones that get bought. And that doesn’t just relate to winning customers, that relates to selling a business and doing anything, because it’s just the fact that we were there and we were the first to mind, maximizing mental availability is important, not just for winning customers, but also for driving, you know, whatever the goal is, whether it’s selling a company or whatever. So hugely important piece to consider. It’s just not, it goes beyond marketing the benefits. Right, there’s some examples. Let’s start. It’s time to make this a bit more practical. Don’t you think, Luman?
Speaker 2: I do, and I just, thanks for the appreciation of the examples. And I will say, examples are really hard to find if you want actually details about the examples as well. So it is, I consider it a luxury that Andy and I have when we’re putting slide decks like this together that we go off and search for these things, but they are no way easy to find or to actually find the detail behind it. And we don’t want to make our own opinions on things because we like data. And this is what’s coming up over the next few slides. We’ve got some data. We’re always sharing data and trends about what we need to focus on to achieve some of this stuff. And this is in no particular order because there is a mix here, but it’s easier for us to talk about it in this way. So if we start off on the next slide, this is from the Content Marketing Institute. So it is US-led data, but it is within the last six months, B2B marketers use of organic social media platforms in the last 12 months. How they have increased, stayed the same, decreased and don’t use. Couple of things to flag, Threadz is not on here yet. We are probably not surprised. We could do a whole session on this. X Twitter has decreased most significantly out of this deck. What I do love, and if anyone does know me, LinkedIn is probably my first love of a social media platform. B2B marketers are looking to invest more in LinkedIn, but at the same time, why were they not there before? This data doesn’t show that, but what it is showing is that there is more than one social media platform for B2B, more than one social media platform for you to be looking at, and it is always important to review it. Yeah, Nicole, the brand risk, X, there’s data out about that at the moment. If Elon Musk has done anything for social media marketers over the last two years, He’s encouraged us to review what we’ve been doing and not to just keep on doing the same thing and not adjusting anything. So the first point here is, review what social media platforms you’re on. You don’t need default to LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, all in Facebook, all have B2B elements and successes behind them as well.
Speaker 3: The thing that always shocks me is like, how little YouTube is still used in B2B, to be honest with you. with 39% staying the same when it’s growing like it is, that always stands out to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And we didn’t mention, well, you just mentioned YouTube video. We can’t escape video. In B2B, B2C, video is the content format that is engaging with people. It’s keeping people on the platform, so the platforms like it. This chart on the left, again from CMI, says the percentage of B2B marketers who think their organization will increase investment in the following areas in 2024. Video is top, then thought leadership content. Events is on there too, webinars. So, you’re all at an event today, so there’s another case in point. And this is supported with the eMarketer data chart on the right. B2B marketers plan to increase social media and video content distribution the most. Video, then blogs, newsletters, podcasts comes down. Content is king and video is absolutely what we need to be leaning into right now.
Speaker 3: This is quite encouraging data, I think, certainly. And I think the interesting thing that jumps out to me is that growth of in-person events too. I’m seeing more and more businesses start to do this as well, because, you know, whilst we’re talking about social media for B2B, that’s not the only thing to do, right? You know, we’re realistic enough to know that’s not the only tactic. So it’s really interesting to see the growth of in-person as well, but that again, talks to the more human led approach to B2B, which we advocate for.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, if anyone hasn’t seen this before, your homework is to go away and Google, look up, find articles. I know Joe, you’re a fan of this. It’s part of the mini MBA courses as well. The long and the short of it. This is all about understanding the role of brands. And that traditionally, and one of the biggest challenges with B2B is that salespeople report on monthly figures, but we know things don’t happen monthly. We’re working over long timescales. The most important word in the long and the short of it is and. We need to be doing both. We need to be thinking about the long-term sales growth and activity that is going to build over time, as well as our short bursts of activity, our promotions, our campaigns, our short-term sales lifts. Now, the data that sits behind this is slightly different between B2C and B2B. In fact, B2… I’ll just double-check this. B2B, your budget split should be about 50-50 on short-term and long-term. B2Cs are probably spending more money on the sales activation the short-term. Does depend what stage your business is at as well, but what it is showing is we can’t do one or the other. We have to do both. Brand does have a role to play. It is not just a logo. So the last corp I worked in for five years, hated the logo, hated the design, hated the assets, did not stop us growing to 60 million turnover because we had a great reputation and great people and all the other stuff around it.
Speaker 3: That’s it. Well, brand is your promise. It’s your reputation. It’s not a logo. So, you know, that’s part of the visual identity but not necessarily a brand. So I think I just want to add some context here. This was a revelation when I saw this, and I wish I’d actually read it in 2013, because I would have sounded much smarter, because I really struggled to convince investors in our direction of long-term brand building content-led activity, because we did a weekly KPI meeting where we’d look at all our statistics, our paid media spend, the amount of content we’ve created, sales that we’ve driven in that week. If you’re looking at that such a narrow context window, you can never see the impact. It was only when we finally convinced everyone to change the reporting window to a quarter, then we’re like, okay, now you can start to see the impact of your content led activity because you’re widening the context and the window of time that you’re looking at. So you can truly see these effects play out. I think that would be my main suggestion if you’re battling with this long and short term. We’re gonna talk more about reporting in a bit, but yeah. That’d be my thing on this. Sorry, this is quite literally the most ugly slide of all time. So I’m gonna, sorry to make you read. I’m gonna just, yeah, I’m gonna speak through it. But our number one task in all B2B, I think that’s come clear and you all get this on this call anyway. Like it’s customer first. You know, they are the number one boss here. And I think the kind of mindset shift are kind of called to arms here It’s like trying to think community first. That doesn’t necessarily mean, all right, we all need to start building something like the marketing meetup. We don’t mean that. We mean we started this business or this business, whatever we work in, whatever company we work in, we started for a particular purpose. So what we truly want to understand is really connecting to this purpose. And again, this goes back to Mark Ritson’s type of education of diagnosis, strategy, then tactics in that order. So understanding who we seek to serve intrinsically and why they should care. And my big ask here, and I see far too few marketers do this, and this is naturally an area of discomfort, but I will push on this, is that I see far too many marketers avoiding getting out on sales meetings and speaking to customers directly. It will change the game for you as soon as you step away from spreadsheets and looking at data or a dashboard, speak to people. Because yes, whilst the quants data good to give you a bit of direction, you really need the the qual data to truly understand what that data actually means. So truly under connecting why people should care. A huge part of being community-led and I think this is really the future where B2B is going, creators and micro-influencers is going to be a huge part of this, because let’s be real for a moment, it’s not everyone’s ambition to follow a brand on Insta or LinkedIn or whatever, right? they care more about the people, we know this. But what I don’t see enough is B2Bs working with these small micro-influencers, subject matter experts that are external to the business as well as internal. And often what’s cited to me is like, oh, we don’t have the budget for that. But my view on that is that that’s not strictly true because there’s value exchanges here way beyond money. It just takes time to do the research, to find those people that your audience respect and find the best place to collaborate with them. I cite this example, I will start cite it forever, but like Joe is the perfect example of this. Joe is someone I really wanted to work with when I was building ContentCal, because not just because he ran the marketing meetups, because it naturally represents the perfect individual that we’d want to associate our brand with. And people care a lot more about what Joe has to say than muggins here, who obviously has a vested interest in a brand, so hugely important. Anything you want to add to that,
Speaker 2: Luanne, before I move on? Yeah, just one thing you talked about going out on sales meetings. It’s really important for getting in front of the customer, but it does help so much to build your relationship with the salespeople as well. Asking them if you can go out for the day, sit with them, have a coffee, all that stuff. We’re coming onto it about alignment, but build those relationships so it’s not a marketing and sales and that will also make a huge difference
Speaker 3: to what you’re what you’re doing. Exactly that, yeah I’ll just roll through these others because everyone on this will get it but like you know contributing to to communities you don’t need to create your own community that will take a huge amount of time be part of those ones because your customers will be hanging out in certain communities wherever that is it could be discord could be Reddit, could be on little kind of sub stacks as well. You don’t need to be everywhere, but find where they’re hanging out. And that research piece should take a good amount of time because that really helps inform our content strategy and also helps inform us with everything our users and audience really care about. And that makes content creation exponentially easier. And then this is one I always cite, like treating your customers as you would your neighbor. Sometimes we see customers as like we would, you know, this is what we’re doing to our customers or this is like the price we want to charge them. But like just think about how can we be as helpful as possible? Because everything, your brands live and die by word of mouth. And whilst the businesses intrinsically know that, I see what the business says and what the business does often disconnected, right? And that a way to think about this is look at every single customer touch point in the business and look at it through like a marketing lens. And this is why we make that point about like Marketing shouldn’t just be done by marketers. Marketing is everything that touches the customer. So it’s like how your sales reps answer the phone. It’s how your customer service people handle queries. It’s everything that interacts with the audience. And this is something about like as B2B marketers kind of leveling up our role within an organization to like, we don’t do marketing which is often misunderstood as promotion. Marketing is everything that the business does to help a customer. And then final, like creating those spaces and experiences for people to learn to each other, learn from each other. And we’ve seen this already in the data that you just shared Luanne, where people are doing more in-person events, we’re focusing more on content. So it’s good that we’re starting to see B2B do more of that to find places to be more helpful, to learn from our audience and try and build experiences together. Sounds like utopian, but I don’t think this stuff is actually hard just to start moving towards. Again, it’s a mindset shift.
Speaker 2: talking of minds. Yeah, I’m just going to go back to the point about being helpful, because there’s some comments in here about like, how can you join these conversations? I find this is like, this is the coffee break stuff. This is like, if I can allocate a little bit of my time every day for sending messages, answering questions, how are you, we must catch up. It’s just those short messages to build relationships that actually makes the difference. There are so many communities that marketing meetup is a wonderful community, peer to peer communities, you’ve got digital women, you’ve got comms hero, you’ve got social media geek out, you’ve got, I was listing them, rebel book club, mini MBA alumni communities as well. Find where you can learn, find where you can go in and be helpful, find where you can see the questions that your audiences are asking and take those elsewhere. And also Andy mentioned creators and influencers. I’ve also got a great story of I’m active in groups on Facebook, on LinkedIn, others. An influencer, a partner that I work with, actually sent me a note going, Luanne, I saw how well you’re answering some questions in there. Well done you. And I was like, tick, that’s an influencer. So it’s, you know, there’s so many people that you can get visible in front of with comments. And sometimes I find that’s the easiest type of content to get involved with as well. We don’t need to do the big posts that take us forever to think about. Just comment and chat and message people. It works, which does bring us on to hearts and minds. And a lot of the work I do with my consultancy hat on is writing business cases, trying to understand what’s going on within an organization where there’s no alignment. And I would say this is the key. If you’re the only marketer, you’re sat within a different team, sales and marketing as well. This is not about you just going to presentations and showing your stuff and what you’re working on. You should never be presenting something that people haven’t seen before. You should be bringing them along that journey with you. Cups of coffee, cake, conversations, going to sales meetings, all of that stuff. And you need to talk their language. I would say this is the biggest point. You can’t just be answering questions about how many followers you’ve got or what was the best performing post last month because it got a lot of likes. What’s the meaningful stuff? Did you get a great comment from someone that you’ve been really hankering after them getting involved with your content? Did you get an invite to do something? I talked with one client of mine about pinch me moments and what has come out of those kind of comments and messaging activity as well. We’ve got to think of this, I think this is the emotional part of B2B, we are working with people, they want their ego stroke, they want help and support and to bounce ideas off each other. So If we can focus on this balance as we go, I think that’s really important and to say here on the communities and this can’t be done by AI, it’s got to be done by people. 100%. We’re going to get even more techie now, aren’t we? Into some more data. I’m not going to excuse talking about marketing theory and fundamentals because again, this is one of my passions. This This is from one of my books, Planning for Success, where I really mapped out the buying decision process and the social media marketing tasks and realized and understood how social media, what we’re doing impacts every part of the funnel. Not every marketing tactic or every channel can do that. The mistakes I see in B2B in particular, but social overall is that people are going straight for the conversion, straight for the action, buy my stuff, I need a lead, we’ve got to do the top of the funnel stuff as well. And we’ve got to take people through this journey. And that’s the biggest challenge in B2B is that this journey is not us standing at a checkout, picking a bar of chocolate because we’re a bit hungry. And you know, more money is involved, more elements, more people, change of processes and internal cultures around what we’re doing as well. So really think about your funnel and what you’re doing.
Speaker 3: I’m going to put this on a t-shirt. So I’m going to just have this on one slide and I’m going to go maybe a tattoo. Basically, anyone I speak to that’s in marketing strategy, I want to make sure this is imprinted everywhere because often social media is seen as a channel and it’s seen as like a tactical channel. I could speak forever about this and I won’t, but like it’s a way that so this is the reason social media is undervalued and people that do social media and b2b are typically underpaid because businesses don’t get it, don’t understand how important this is, and see it in isolation. They see it as a promotional channel. Once again, businesses quite often misunderstand and conflate marketing and promotion. Promotion is a part, just a single part of marketing. Social media is all about strategy. And my only real kind of call to arms on this is that the social strategy should be a direct reflection of the marketing strategy, which should be a direct reflection of a business strategy. It’s all one and the same, right? This is not is not a channel and because we’ve seen how how much of a broad church both b2b and social is in general in like for the purpose of social we’re not just saying oh we’re putting out posts to our linkedin feed or whatever it’s about the personality driven growth it’s the creators micro-influence the communities that we create the communities that we participate in all of that is social so it’s all part of a broader strategy about how we understand our business how we go to market and how we talk about our business. But of course, you all understand that because you’re all pro marketers on this call. So let’s then step it up a gear. I think we need to get a little bit more tactical and practical about how do we make this happen. And a lot of the kind of cultural change that we’ve been speaking about so far comes back to making sure our goals are
Speaker 2: aligned. So you want to talk about this one, Luanne? Yeah, I think it just reinforces the point that if your social media activity is aligned to the marketing strategy to the business strategy then the metrics that matter are related to your strategic objectives which should be smart as well and I’m not going to spell that out. There are lots of metrics we can look at in social media and some of them I would call stepping stone metrics. They tell us what’s working, what’s not, what’s resonating. Again I like to map things out and align them with a funnel so there’s the previous funnel earlier and looking at the social media measurements that we can be looking at at each stage. Yes, top of funnel, we’re looking at reach and impressions. Bottom of the funnel, we’re looking at conversion and all those steps in between as well. Just to get really tactical here, one of the social media updates that we keep talking about at the moment is our Instagram is really changing on this. They are focusing on views and sends and sharing. They are talking about being social on social media and we need to be thinking about how we align with that, what the platforms themselves want and then how that ladders back up to our big picture objectives.
Speaker 3: Love that. This slide is probably one of those photo slides where, yeah,
Speaker 2: it’s incredibly useful this actually. Emma’s just said followers isn’t on the list. No, it’s not on the list because actually I think engagement rates are more important. I would be looking for follower growth, but actually that’s something that Missouri at Instagram has been talking about. It’s not about followers and likes anymore, it is about engagement.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that’ll spark an interesting conversation, I think that one. Yeah, I think the death of the follower, if anyone saw that talk on South by, at South by Southwest by the founder of Patreon, the death of the follower is such a good thing to watch, because the reality is followers matter less in social media than they once did. And trying to prove our success by the growth of followers, many of which will never reach with our content is one of those, it’s one of those micro metrics that aren’t tied to a business goal, which typically set us on a, on the incorrect path. And, and I think that’s one of the historical factors that have limited people from understanding how impactful social media is at a business level, because we look at like two small metrics, like how many followers do we grow this week, doesn’t really have any economic value. So we need to think about more of the metrics that align to our goals and typically they’re ones that have some kind of economic value.
Speaker 2: I know you can’t see the chat, Andy, but I’m just going to pick up because people are now talking about followers. What I’d also say is we have to recognise how the social media platforms have really changed, thanks to TikTok, that a lot of what we’re seeing now is the algorithmic recommendations. The For You channel on TikTok changed everything. It is not just about the followers. It’s as much about non followers now as well.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and I expect the same will probably happen to LinkedIn in the not too distant that is pure conjecture right now, but I expect to happen the same. But don’t get me wrong, followers still feels good from a valid team perspective, right? So you know, it still feels good, I get it. And this, if anyone doesn’t follow Rand Fishkin, my call to action today is follow Rand Fishkin, because he’s someone I model my career on, because he is so relentlessly helpful with the stuff he shares. I absolutely adore him. I think Joe, he was like one of your
Speaker 1: first COVID webinars, wasn’t it? He was the very first. Thought he was. Yeah, he’s a good man.
Speaker 3: Oh, he’s an absolute legend. And he’s really started to double down on like really helpful data, particularly as it relates to search. That’s what he’s big into. And this took me so long to try and work out and then explain to our investors, because our attribution software, which is, I won’t mention it actually, because it’s unfair, but our attribution software would always say our leads came from Google. And as a direct result of that, we’re like, sweet, Well, we’ve got a hundred grand media spend. Put it all on Google, all on black, thanks, and spin the wheel. And guess what happened? The linearity of that all descended. So what would happen? More spend didn’t necessarily correlate to the same growth rates, because the more you spend, actually, effectiveness, I was trying to say a different word there, but I can’t say it, effectiveness went down. And that is a huge problem. We wasted and burned so much cash purely because we were made to be Google’s fool. All about last touch attribution in our attribution software and our CRM everything was was Google. The reality is so much is happening outside of Google, Google gets credited with the last click. So here so much of discovery is actually happening on social and on productivity tools as well and only 10 percent on search And what most attribution software is saying, it’s all coming through Google. So I would say, really interrogate that strongly. The way you can do that is starting to have, I mean, very simply to make sure that you’ve got a how did you hear about us on every single form, make sure all sales people are drilled to say, how did you hear about us? And you start to capture the qualitative stuff. I’ve shared this story a lot, but just anecdotally, this may be very unpopular of our sales team, I did it anyway, we would hold their commission back unless they correctly put in lead source with the fidelity that I was happy with. So even if someone said, I found you on Google, you’re like, okay, so what led you to Google us? Only when I had that level of fidelity, could I be, you know, would I be comfortable to accept that as like a, you know, a qualified sale that they didn’t get paid off? Yes, that was a bit militant. But it meant that we had true, true understanding of attribution. And lo and behold, most of that actually came through a podcasts, came through webinars, came through a lot through marketing meetup as a result of like sessions we did with Joe. It’s that kind of glorious mess that our technology has not evolved to understand everything that happens in the world of dark social. So the long version of everything I’ve just said there is that a lot happens behind the scenes, a lot happens in ways that we won’t ever be able to track, and social media is a part of that. It can be incredibly messy. So just don’t become Google’s fool and think that attribution software is the single magic bullet, because it never is. Sorry for long narrative. As you see, I feel very passionate about that. I’ve not been speaking so much. Luann, do you want to take this slide?
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. More data, more insights. The B2B Institute, data from LinkedIn. This is another one, light, long and short, that you should have a look at. at. What’s really important to understand in B2B is that only 5% of your buyers are in markets at any one point of time. 95% are out of market. The example I use here is laptops. How often do we replace our laptops? Maybe every three, four, five years. Doesn’t mean I’m not going to see a laptop piece of content from Dell, Apple, HP, or anything else between those three or four years. They have to keep marketing at me so that it stays front of mind, mental availability, but overall only 5% of your buyers are in market at any one time. And this is a really important concept for marketers to understand and for you to communicate internally as well. That’s your focus. Definitely. Talking about communicating internally, I think
Speaker 3: this is the last slide we got. Share of voice versus share of market. If you’ve seen me speak before, I’m sorry, I’m a broken record, but at least you know I’m consistent. I talk about this all the time, single most important thing that I typically think about when I think about how content and marketing and all this kind of community-led stuff that we’ve been speaking about, how it impacts business at a macro level. More people talking about us, more mental availability, our brand will grow. I track this every quarter, ContentCal versus Hootsuite, tracked it in a tool called Mentionlytics. I’m not affiliated with them in any way, but I just use their product all the time. If anyone needs that, again, mention litix.com. Really cheap, really easy. Just track the share of voice. And it was the most useful thing to communicate to investors and people that just weren’t marketing natives in the rest of our business to go, this is what we’re trying to do. And in fact, you know, this is understood. And for some of the businesses that are best at marketing, like Adobe are doing incredible jobs with their marketing strategy at the moment, and they care deeply about share of voice versus competition and it’s this kind of these kind of metrics are the thing that’s determining literally tens of millions of spend based on share of voice because they know how important that five percent is and versus 95 understanding the importance of front of mind mental availability as Luann you were just talking about. Right we’re a little bit late for questions so we’ll put the summary up here but I think Luann do you want to do summary and we’ve got one more thing to share and then and then we’ll hit the Q and A.
Speaker 2: We have. This is why we do these events together because it’s so fast. We have to share it. And we have got lots of work to do. We’re not saying this is easy. We have to be strategic. We have to be tactical, but it’s also about culture and mindset as well. It is our job to be educators and change makers too. Always, always marketing fundamentals. We can’t skip this stage. Anyone that glosses over the words, define your target audience, create a persona, go back. We have to focus on our target audience always. B2B, rational and emotional. We’re not different personalities. We are people. And I know there’s questions about personal brands and talking to companies or people. People buy from people. We know, Andy’s changed jobs since I’ve known him. My relationship is with Andy, not the company that he works for. Andy will be my go-to person for his area of expertise. And that’s how we do business together, get recommendations and all of that other stuff. We’ve got to focus on the big picture, start with the right goals, and then we can measure and focus on the right outcomes as well. We’ve got to align from the very highest level. Yes, worry about what the platforms are doing and nice little features, but bring it back up, be strategic, talk the language of the board if you want their buy-in. And this doesn’t stop here. This is what we do all the time. I feel it’s a privilege. Keep watching what others are doing, keep testing all the time. The answers are always in your own data and feel a bit strictly at the end of this. And if we were together, we could dance. Keep learning.
Speaker 3: And talking of keep learning, we’re doing this because we are that nerdy about B2B, we’re running a whole day conference on the kind of stuff that we’ve just spoken about. But the good news is you get to speak to people that are much smarter than me, certainly, because we’ve got LinkedIn coming, we have Marketing Week coming, we have-
Speaker 2: Nicole, who’s in the chat.
Speaker 3: Sorry, say again.
Speaker 2: Nicole, she’s in the chat.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh, Nicole, yeah. Good friend of the marketing meetup too. And yeah, we’ve got PwC coming to talk about how they built an incredibly successful employee advocacy programme, which is gonna be awesome. We have some wonderful B2B influencers turning up. So that’s such a nascent space. So yeah, to be honest with you, I’m so proud of like the stuff. I’m just gonna nerd out all day. So anyway, that’s what we’re doing. but you can find out more about that. I think it’s time to answer some questions. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely fabulous. My goodness, there was so much there, but in such a brilliant, brilliant way. So thank you both so much. And the thing I reflect on as a result of that chat is what I love is that you spoke about the things that sort of, I wouldn’t say anything’s timeless, but feel more timeless. You know, this is the stuff which folks will hopefully be able to apply over the next sort of five, 10, 15 years of their career, rather than sort of speaking about trends of today that may be relevant for the next two weeks. So thank you very, very much. Endlessly appreciated, both of you. Let’s get going with the Q&A. There’s 24 open questions and 10 minutes left. So let’s treat this as a rapid fire to both of you. And could you reference that in the talk? I’m gonna go to you first, Andy. So we’ve got Zeynep who is asking at the top of the Q&A, what is the current state of influencer marketing in B2B and how are companies using social to amplify its impact? So influencer marketing in B2B specifically.
Speaker 3: State is nascent, many businesses not doing it quite right. There are very few organizations out there built to help this as well. It’s so, it’s so darn new, to be honest with you. I think we’re all figuring it out together. It’s an area that I am very, very interested in and trying to figure it out too. We’ve, from my background, my only example I can share, we’ve used bigger influencers that we’ve paid upwards of 30 grand for one single live stream with, didn’t perform as well because that influencer the next week sponsored some Hootsuite content, or did some Hootsuite sponsored content. And the ones that we that have worked the best have been longer term engagements people that truly get it that we that we love and we support the support the values of you know joe you’re a perfect example of that um yeah so that’s probably my my answer hopefully practical guidance as well as nascent we’ve got a lot a lot to learn in b2b because they’re not no one’s really unlocked this properly yet and i’m excited nice i love that um i’m just i’m just
Speaker 2: gonna add in there sorry joe i can’t help myself adding on to things um i i what i think is really important in this influencer space is to consider who truly is an influencer over your audience and who is really aligned, who are your customers, your decision makers, who are they listening to and make sure that they are the right fit for those. I receive lots of messages from lots of people, it’s like why are they promoting this, I’m not going to listen to them and things like that, so I think the challenge with it and why it’s in the place it is right now is because it’s really hard to work out what is the right fit and to get very easily distracted on who you might be an influencer because they are in your marketing world but your customers aren’t necessarily in
Speaker 1: the same world. 100% it’s so so true yeah you’re absolutely bang on thank you so much Luanne that’s a really great point to add in so thank you very much. Let’s go to the next question just because there’s so many open to let’s Luanne we’ll start with you so this question comes in from John who asks, what are the best strategies for encouraging employee generated content within an organization? And how can we effectively structure and grow this content to enhance our brand’s authenticity and engagement? So another big trend at the moment, employee generated content. Any tips for getting folks to engage?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the trick here is flatter your colleagues, tell them that you need their help, that you can’t do it all by yourself. Again, cake, coffee, conversations, but it’s about co-creating the content with them. You can’t just email a colleague and say, I need a blog, can you give me 500 words? Because it’s not my job, they’ll feel like they’re back at school, it’s not their world, and it will go to the bottom of their list. Again, that’s why I talk about coffee and chats. Say I’m writing a blog, I’d love to put together with you, could you just talk me this through with me and record it, write it up, present it to them, take them on the journey of co-creating, then post it from their profiles, show them how well it did, and you’ll create your champions. I’ll give a plug here, because there was a brilliant quote, and I’ve used this from Andy, your podcast with Canal, who is talking about this at the event. And he said that at PWC, they’d actually had to change their content approach to make it more shareable by their employees. And again, I talk about this with LinkedIn, like there’s no point chucking stuff on your company page if your employees aren’t going to share it, because it’s not written in a employee shareable way as well. So as marketers, get them on board, flatter their egos, help them, but guide them through it as well. Work with them, not in isolation.
Speaker 3: Quick nudge to Emily Russell, who’s in the chat, who’s also at PwC, who actually mentioned about leveraging in-house influencers and Jake, who’s in the chat as well. Basically connect with these people who are in the chat because they know their stuff about this space. So use this as a great networking opportunity. Sorry, Joe, back to you.
Speaker 1: Love it. And I just want to highlight a comment from Tim in the chat as well. He says, for B2B influencer marketing, one tip is to create a group amongst content creators, amongst your customers, industry experts, and employees, and facilitate conversations between them. Make them the hero of your content and then put paid behind their content assets. And I think that speaks to what you did there, Luan, you know, that sort of facilitation enabling, you know, lifting these people up and these conversations can kind of happen.
Speaker 2: On LinkedIn, you’ve got the wonderful new ad type now of thought leadership ad content as well, where a company page can put money behind an individual’s post, whether they’re an employee or not. So that’s also a really great tool, really easy to set up. I’d get some of that going as well.
Speaker 1: Fabulous. Let’s keep going just because I’m aware of time and I want to make sure our community feels heard with their questions. So let’s go to Doug. So Doug asks, in a similar vein, to be fair, and so there’s a similar question beneath that from Sarah as well. So I’m gonna sort of loop these two in together. But Doug’s question is, any examples of how you can easily persuade colleagues who are setting their way off the benefits of building personal brand using social media? So the distinction, I think, between this is employee-generated content. I would say is something that typically would appear on a company page probably, more often than not, not always, but sometimes, whereas a personal brand would be something that is owned by that individual. So how do we go about encouraging folks to build their personal brand on social media if we would like to? Liran, you got an answer.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, read this book, leave it on your desk, show it to your CEO, give them examples. We talked earlier, you loved that we shared examples, Give them examples. Show them what their industry peers are doing. The chief exec, I think it was, of Aviva, recently filmed a TikTok, posted it on LinkedIn, saying, my team told me I need to do a TikTok because we need to attract more Gen Z. He did it. The chief exec of the NSPCC posts, not just about work, his crazy jumpers that he wears, Christmas jumpers all year round. Find other people that are doing it and examples. That always works. but yeah, this book by Damien Corbett, who also has a LinkedIn group and is sharing examples all the time on C-suite people who are doing this stuff.
Speaker 3: Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Other adds to that, I think I mentioned it earlier. If you’re speaking to a salesperson and if you want that salesperson to increase the amount of commission they’ll get when they walk into a room and have people recognize them and respect them for what they’ve just said, like they’ve seen on social, if they want the conversion rates to go up, which every salesperson does, that’s what they want. I would use that.
Speaker 1: Love that so much. Let’s go to a question from Alice. So I think this was something you referenced earlier, Andy, and I think you did as well, Luanne, about video. And, you know, of course this is super hot right now. So Alice asks the question in the Q&A of, where would you recommend starting with growing YouTube content when you don’t have the budget to produce consistent high quality videos every week. What types of videos do you think perform best, e.g. interviews, info on a niche topic or behind the scenes, et cetera? So starting with video, particularly if you’ve got a low budget. Andy, we’ll go to you first, if that’s possible.
Speaker 3: Cool, quick, I’ll be very tactical here. Tool suggestion, keywords everywhere. Keywords everywhere is so useful. So you can look at the keywords that are most relevant for you when you’re looking at YouTube content. so you’ll know the topic. I think the fact is like the content format just depends. It depends on your audience. It depends on where the search volume is, et cetera. So I don’t think I can give a specific answer, but also depends on the style of the people that you’re interviewing. If people are great speakers and it feels like a really natural interview conversation, then great, do an interview. I would also dispel the myth that it needs to be highly produced. It doesn’t, it really doesn’t. It can simply be a camera And you can do so much in post-production now, like tools like Veed have, remove background noise. You can just do wonderful stuff. And I think you, Joe, you turn up to like the Canberra and HubSpot offices. I don’t think you take a lot of kit with you.
Speaker 1: No, no, no.
Speaker 3: You should see us, we’re logging across London. It’s just you and James with an iPhone. But yeah, you can do a lot with very little. So look at search volume, understand your audience, understand where the gaps are, look where the gaps are, where there isn’t enough content related to that, using keywords everywhere, and don’t worry about production value. It shouldn’t be a barrier. Yeah, just get creating, and then you’ll figure it out as you go. You’ll only learn when you start. That’s perfect.
Speaker 1: It’s three o’clock, so we need to be just respectful of Andy, Luan, and everyone watching in today to sort of keep to the promise on time as much as anything else. So we’re going to do that, but I’ve got an encouragement here, which is like, you know, Andy and Luanne are generous beyond belief. You know, they spend so much time sort of giving their time, their thoughts, tactical updates, strategic updates on a weekly basis. And so, you know, they’re there, they’re here, they’re smart, they’re wonderful. And I could keep on going describing them in really nice terms. So on the screen right now, you’ve got their LinkedIn profiles. Again, with the weird graphic, I must’ve had a weird morning, but feel free to connect with both of them. And I’d really encourage you to do so because Andy and Luan are available so often to be continue answering questions like what we’ve had today and it’s utterly brilliant and it’s utterly generous. So it’s endlessly appreciated. Also, you know, just a continued, a huge, huge thank you to everyone in the community. like the Q&A and the chat feature is just wonderful, truly. And every one of you make that happen. So week in, week out, it’s a truly special time. So thank you very, very much. I hope it’s been an hour well-invested in yourself and you come away having learned something new or with something to take to your work straight away. A big, big thank you, just to close out to Plannable as well as Frontify, Exclaimer, Cambridge Martin College, Redgate and Scorap, they’re wonderful. That means they’re the people that mean we can bring these sessions to you. And in two weeks, I messed up the schedule a bit. I missed out a week. So in two weeks time, we’ll be returning for the business case for social media with the former head of social media for Ryanair. So I hope you can join us for that session. With all that said, that’s us done for this week, but you’ve all been the absolute best. So thank you for taking the time. Andy Luan, thank you as well. Just utterly generous beyond belief. With all that said, have a wonderful Tuesday and we will see you all very, very soon. Take care.
Speaker 4: Bye.