Key Takeaways
- The Role of the CEO
- A CEO’s primary role is to oversee the entire organization, ensuring teams are aligned and empowered. CEOs focus on growth, operations, and strategy. While they engage in high-level decisions, they also delegate functional tasks to ensure business success.For CEOs in startups, like Anna Henwood (CEO of Sticky Beak), the role can be varied, spanning sales calls, product development, and operations, making them heavily involved in all aspects of the business.
- Shifting From CMO to CEO
- Moving from CMO to CEO broadens the perspective, requiring a deeper understanding of all departments—not just how they interact with marketing.The transition involves shifting from seeing departments through a marketing lens to understanding their independent strategies and aligning them to overall business success.
- Language Matters
- CEOs emphasize the importance of language. Clear, aligned language ensures team cohesion and sets the stage for success.When marketers communicate with CEOs, it’s important to align the language to business goals. For example, instead of talking about “brand building,” use terms like “future demand generation” to match the CEO’s growth focus.
- The CEO’s Perspective on Marketing
- Marketing is seen as the engine room of culture, crucial for driving growth and aligning teams. Successful marketing drives future demand and supports overall company strategy.CEOs often want marketers to focus on outcomes—how marketing impacts growth, customer acquisition, and brand perception in the long run.
- Collaboration is Key
- A CEO values marketers who collaborate across teams. Marketing should not be siloed but integrated with sales, product development, and customer success to maximize impact.CEOs appreciate marketers who take ownership of their function while also working cross-functionally to drive business outcomes.
- Marketing Reporting to the CEO
- CEOs prefer regular, digestible updates rather than big, detailed presentations. The “little and often” approach ensures alignment and allows for real-time course corrections.CEOs don’t expect marketers to know the future perfectly but want to see that marketing strategies are well thought out and align with broader business objectives.
- Budgeting and Approvals
- CEOs want to understand the “why” behind budget requests. They look for marketers who can explain how spending aligns with growth and strategic goals.The effectiveness of the budget, rather than the amount, is what matters most to CEOs.
Practical Tips for Marketers
- Build Relationships: Develop close working relationships with your CEO by staying aligned with their vision and showing how marketing can help achieve strategic goals.
- Communicate Regularly: CEOs appreciate frequent, bite-sized updates rather than one-off presentations. Keep them informed with regular progress reports and show how marketing initiatives contribute to broader company objectives.
- Be Curious and Collaborative: Go beyond marketing. Engage with sales, product, and finance to understand their goals and challenges. CEOs appreciate marketing leaders who drive cross-departmental success.
- Frame Marketing in Business Terms: Speak the CEO’s language—connect marketing activities to revenue, customer growth, and strategic outcomes. Be clear on how marketing will contribute to long-term success.
These takeaways can help marketers understand how to better align with CEO priorities and think more strategically about the impact of their work.
Transcript (AI generated – May contain some errors)
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, hope you’re doing good. It’s so lovely to see you all. Thank you so much. I’m enjoying in the chat feature today the amount of synonyms for it’s quite hot. So in the chat feature, if you haven’t already, do drop in there where you’re watching from, and on a scale of one to ten, one being it’s quite hot and ten being you’re very, very hot. Pop how hot you are right now in terms of temperature. I’m quite enjoying Scorchio from Nicole, and Helen saying eleven. If you haven’t already, also do pop in the chat feature, you can see there’s a little toggle, you’ll be able to switch your messages. So if your little toggle presently says hosts and panellists, switch that over to everyone, and then everyone can see your messages. Just like Rachel has in Oxford, who says it’s a ten out of ten in terms of the heat. We’ve got Kat who’s saying we’re going to go for a glistening seven in Southampton. It keeps on going. So thank you very much. Okay, one final shout out for Rachel who says I’m in the depths of hell. So thank you. Today our amazing guest is Anna Henwood, who’s the CEO of Sticky Beak, who’s actually joining us from New Zealand today. So for Anna right now, it’s 2am, which is just ridiculous. And so I think Anna really deserves some applauded. So again, I’m going to yield to the chat feature and say, can we give Anna a big round of applause, because that’s absolutely ridiculous. Anna has a really interesting background, having made the transition from being the CMO of Les Mills International over to the CEO of Sticky Beak. And so I think today we’re going to have a really interesting perspective on what it means to move over from a marketing position over to the CEO role. And thank you everyone for being just absolutely wicked in the chat. It’s really lovely to see. Before we get going, I just want to say a big thank you to our sponsors for this week. So this week’s featured sponsor is Redgate Software. Redgate are a fabulous software company based over in Cambridge, and presently they’ve got a comms and PR role available between 40 and 50k over in Cambridge, but also remote. So if you want to find out more about that, you’ve got a QR code on your screen right now. We’ve got Alexandra Murphy saying Sticky Beak is the best name ever as well. Also a big thank you to Frontify, Exclaimer, Sticky Beak, Planable, Cambridge Marketing College, Redgate. They’re all heroes. These are the people that support our community. These are the people that mean that we can bring these sessions to you. So a big, big thank you to those sponsors. We’ll speak about them more on rotation as ever, and hopefully you’ve seen them in the email before and afterwards. The last thing for me to say is this session will function purely as a Q&A. So I’ve got some questions lined up, but if you would like to contribute your questions to Anna to ask about how a marketer can interact with CEOs, then please go down to the Q&A feature, which is found down below, and pop your questions in there. We can see that Alexandra has also contributed that she watched a lot of Neighbours growing up, although I’m pretty sure that was
Speaker 2: Australian. So I’m not quite sure. Well that’s the Sticky Beak reference, right? I was going to say, I think Alexandra is an Indian of some sort. Yeah, yeah, very Aussie-Kiwi name. So yeah, she’s picked up on the local lingo there with her Neighbours. I didn’t know that. I like
Speaker 1: that. Very good. Okay, the tribe. Okay, I did not know any of this. So congratulations. Good, good job, Alexandra. So let’s get going, Anna. And once again, thank you for just being an absolute hero and being awake at an ungodly hour. This is your first time as a CEO, having recently transitioned. So what do you actually do? How do you spend your day-to-day these days
Speaker 2: in this new role? Yeah, well, you know, thanks, John. Thank you so much for having me. It’s lovely to be part of the community. I think it’s a little bit different in my role because I’m the CEO of a startup. So we’re small and we’re scrappy and we’re doing everything. So the kind of headline is my role is wildly varied. But if I had to really kind of break it down into some key buckets, I think the first one for me, and it was the same when I was CMO, is about team and people. So my number one job every day is making sure that everyone’s feeling engaged and empowered and, you know, have what they need to make great decisions, because that’s not my job to make decisions across all the functions. My job is to kind of set everyone up for success. So that’s number one. That might look like whips, that might look like thinking buddies, that might look like, you know, having a conversation and learning a bit more about something so I can help bounce that around. So that’s probably my number one and my favorite thing that I love doing every day. If I go to the opposite of that, my least favorite is more the operations side. So the legal stuff, the finance stuff, the kind of, you know, the stuff that I would say a bit more boring and maybe there’s other marketers that are with me. And luckily, I have someone in the team who’s just an absolute gun in the space. And whether that’s a nudge that they have to give me to get it done or a quick call to kind of, you know, iron it out in my head so that I can actually get it done, there’s a bit of time spent on that. But the stuff I really love doing is the growth stuff. And I think that is a hangover from being a marketer first and really loving that space. But whether that’s sales calls, whether that’s kind of new marketing initiatives and activities we’re looking at, whether that’s conversations with customers, whether that’s product development, in the CEO of a startup role, it kind of sits across all of those areas, sometimes literally in the weeds, writing JIRA tickets for the devs. Sometimes it’s a little bit higher up kind of, you know, thinking strategically about how things might line up to the big picture and what that might
Speaker 1: mean for the future. I love that. Thank you very much. I mean, it’s dead useful. It’s really useful on many levels. The first is that it’s great to get an insight into your world. The second is when I had a proper job way back when, then I used to tease my CEO because I had no idea what he actually
Speaker 2: did every day. Something to do with spreadsheets and stuff. So it’s actually really useful to have
Speaker 1: that context. With that in mind, I mean, I appreciate your context here. And you’re saying that you’ve got a wide range of tasks. But has there been a difference in the language that you’ve started to use moving from that marketing role to that CEO role? And the reason why I ask that is because as marketers, I think it’s always useful to speak the language of the folks that we’re speaking to. And so if we are speaking to the CEO as a marketer, then it’s useful to know how you tend to sort of speak, think in this new role. Yeah, it is a really good question.
Speaker 2: I’ve always banged on about how important language is. I worked with a brilliant CEO at Les Mills International, and he was fixated on language and the importance of it for alignment, but also sort of motivation and for clarity. And I think it’s exactly the same whether you’re in a marketing seat or a CEO seat, is to really get aligned on that language that you’re using, like the specific words as well, right? So that there’s no misunderstanding, we’re really clear on what we’re going for, and how we’re measuring success. So if success looks like new members on platform, then, and we call that new members on platform, or let’s use that language over and over again, and let’s make sure that’s really clear for everyone. And so I think in terms of like the language I’m using, I’ve probably got a just a broader vocab now. But the because I might have slightly different language with the engineers and the developers, to what I have with the customer success and marketing team. But it’s my role to kind of knit that language together as well, because I have the privilege of kind of seeing across everything that’s going on. And with a small team, everyone kind of has that view. But as the team gets bigger, and this is even more so at my CMO role where there was 100 people in marketing across the world at Les Mills International. And so kind of connecting up what’s happening across different divisions, you know what it’s like in marketing, you can go, you know, I had a full social media team. And the words that we words that we didn’t even know were invented last week, or the platforms or the content that they’re working on. And so you know, how you can really help people line up and make sure that there’s not confusion just because of words, and that we’re really trying to help each other out in terms of understanding the goals and how we’re getting
Speaker 1: there together. That’s really interesting. And I fully agree with your point. It’s, it’s, it’s so true. And you know, how we go about our day to day and use that is really important. We’ve got Montserrat, by the way, saying I love the answer in the chat. So you’re getting validation here from the community as well. Montserrat’s amazing. So but it’s an interesting thing, because I’m already deviating from the script, but something I’ve encountered when I sort of go around my day to day is that difference between sort of modelling behaviours, and sort of almost saying, this is the behaviours that we’re going to do, so to speak. And I found that quite tricky sometimes. And quite often, I found modelling behaviours to be more effective than actually sort of outwardly saying, you know, this is the rules, or these are the words we’re using and stuff like that. I appreciate that’s more of a statement than it is a question. But I mean, have you any reflections on that? I mean, either in StickyBeat context or working
Speaker 2: with a 100 person marketing team? Yeah, I think it’s a, it’s that combination of having strong values, right? Like you want to understand, as a team, you know, not just your function, but the whole business, how you behave and how you turn up and show up to each other. So one of our values at StickyBeat is about curiosity. And that that is kind of the way the product is evolved. And but it’s also the way we interact with each other. And so it means there’s, you ask questions, and we’re not asking questions to interrogate, we’re asking questions, because we’re curious. And, you know, the marketing team want to find out more about what the engineers are doing. And they want to understand a bit more about sales so that they can, you know, do their role a bit better. And so by having that kind of values based or that kind of, you know, the words that you use to say, this is how we show up and at our business, we’re StickyBeat, we’re curious, you know, so that gives you that language to kind of operate in a certain way. But then doing that is most important, right? So you can’t just bang your values on the wall, or put words up and say, we are this, and you’re not that. And everyone is stuck in their little lane, and they don’t talk to each other. And they’re not curious that, you know, they think they know it all. And they don’t need anyone else’s help. That’s not how you operate, you know? So then how do you actually just bring that to life every day? And some of it can be, you know, not so much in the business and the commercial, but more in just being a human. So I’m a parent of two boys. They’re part of my one life that I have that includes work. And I love picking them up from school. And as they’ve grown up, different things have been important at different times. And so leaving loudly and being proud that you’re going to do something with your family and having kids like that’s part of the way you operate. That’s part of the things you say and you do that brings that culture to life. So yeah, I think it’s very important that it’s done, it’s clear what it is, but then it’s also practiced. I love that so much. And you know,
Speaker 1: it’s so important. It’s just so important, that culture thing. And it’s interesting because you mentioned people in the first instance. And I guess that’s another byway to sort of speaking about culture as a whole, you know, and how you build those things. But I love that. Sort of hierarchy, whether or not it’s actually true, but you know, culture, values, and then behaviors. And those things are really interesting. And just as a snippet, then when we were doing a similar exercise for marketing meetup, we wrote down our values, but then it was our board who challenged us to write down about the behaviors and actually sort of speak about the behaviors. And that as a cultural exercise has been way more important, by saying what you do do and also what you don’t do. And so like, I just really resonate with what you’re saying and find it really useful in that way. And talking about it, I think, like,
Speaker 2: sometimes as marketers, we can be guilty of being a bit insular, and staying in our area, coming up with the answer, and then doing a tada to the rest of the business. And, and the most, when I’ve seen that work really effectively, is when marketers take others on the journey with them. And we get a little bit fixated that it needs to be the output that’s perfect. But if we can really understand that the process is what makes it perfect, and that having the conversations, getting the shared understanding and the learning and getting people to really understand what it is that you’re trying to do with change or what the value means. Then when you put it up on the wall, you don’t even need it on the wall, because everyone’s so clear and had that discussion and really understood what’s going on, that it doesn’t matter if the post is not beautiful or perfect, or the word on the third line is not the right word, because everyone’s debating about what that word should be, because you’ve done the work. And yeah, another really brilliant saying from Clive, the CEO at Les Mills is marketing is the engine room of culture. And I really believe that in terms of kind of setting that tone. But yeah, getting outside of just that our department, you know, and our department, I’m still I’m still marketing department. As a CEO, that is a brilliant thing. If you’ve got a marketer that is playing that role for you, because that’s what you want to you want this beautiful organization of people that are doing their best work every day and showing up. And so if you’ve got someone alongside you that has that shared agenda, that’s a win. I love that so much. So, so useful. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And I like we’ve got James in the chat saying that’s experience talking right there. You know, but then we’ve got Paul speaking about when working with Adidas, we learned one of the primary values of the All Blacks was to always be there to support your fellow players. And that’s an insight into how they play and live, you know, and it’s so true. You spoke there about not quite being able to let go of the marketer inside you, which is amazing. But having having taken the step into this CEO role, what has surprised you? What have you reflected on that’s different? You know, what I think being surprised is probably the best the best question to ask. So what surprised you about moving from CMO to CEO in terms of those different
Speaker 2: roles that you now have to play? Yeah, what’s actually been surprising is probably my understanding of the other departments has really gone from this perspective that I didn’t really realize I was having was, how does that work with me as the marketer? So what are sales going to give me? And how am I going to work with sales? And what does marketing and sales look like? To actually at a CEO level going, well, what is our sales strategy? What is our focus? How, how do we know we’re winning in sales? How do we know we’re winning in product and really thinking about them a bit more independent to the other functions? That’s not how they operate. They operate as one team, for sure. But just taking the step back to go, well, what is our product strategy? What does that look like versus what is product and marketing going to look like together, which is a slightly different view. And it’s really opened up my eyes to how marketing can better support that function. Because instead of coming from a, how might they work with us? It’s like, well, how do they operate best? And what does that mean in terms of how things work together? So I’ve really loved kind of looking at that view, being a bit more neutral in my view in, and not thinking just about how that connects with marketing, but how that that area kind of, yeah, succeeds, what, what the people need, where the, where the connections do make sense. They don’t always have to be deeply connected, but you know, making sure that people are aware whose responsibilities are what and how we turn up together has been really interesting. And then the other thing too, is that just, we’re just, we’re still at the same human. So, but I am still the same human and it hasn’t really changed me, I don’t think, and how I operate. And maybe that’s a watch out in terms of making sure that it doesn’t. But, you know, really is the same, you’re the same human, you have the same values. You just now have a slightly wider and different remit on how that comes to life. I love that so much. And, you know, if anything,
Speaker 1: that’s been a huge takeaway from this season, where we’ve been speaking to lots of different departments and, you know, that humanity and just having a conversation and standing people, just people, you know, and so going out.
Speaker 2: Just humans, yeah. We’ve good days, we’ve bad days.
Speaker 1: A hundred percent. I guess, conversely, I don’t know whether anyone else has this weird dream, but, you know, like, okay, I’m going to expose, I’m going to expose myself here. You know where you sort of like dream that you could go back and live a situation again with the knowledge that you have now and say, like, you know, and.
Speaker 2: That’s a nightmare, I think. I’m not good at that. I’m an all hits, no breaks kind of person.
Speaker 1: I love that. Well, I’m just interested now you’ve had this experience, how you would, if you went back into a CMO role, not that you’re going to, or even a more generalist marketing role. Now you’ve got the knowledge that you have, how would you then step back and sort of change your behavior as a marketer if you were, now that you’ve seen the world that
Speaker 2: you have? Yeah, I joke about this a little bit, and particularly at Lees Mills, because I guess it’s the most recent thing that I was in, is that God, I would be a better partner to my sales director. Like I would really actually now understand how we could work really effectively together. What I got stuck in, and it might have just been the way we operated, because it was a really big team, so you just had to have that clarity around roles and responsibilities, was this kind of, this imaginary line where marketing stopped and sales kicked in. And I listened to the previous webinar that you had with some sales leaders, and we all have kind of different philosophies and approaches, but mine is very much that I think MQLs and SQLs can actually be really harmful for marketing and sales to work together. And it leads to a bit of this, and that’s not what you’re trying to do, you’re just trying to help people, you know, move through your, it’s not even a funnel, your path, your user journey, and you know, find the best solution that your business offers, and help make their business better, or their life better, or whatever it is that you’re selling. And sometimes there’ll be marketing tactics that’ll be beautiful in that last 10%. Sometimes there’ll be sales stuff that really helps drive interest and people into what you offer, but we have these sort of imaginary spaces that we own, and so I think now that I’ve looked more at that helicopter view, and understood kind of the strengths of the different departments, and how things can work together, I think I would have been a much better partner for my sales director, in terms of trying to set up that approach, and really giving help, so from a B2B point of view, that pipeline, you know, work in that last 25% of pipeline, we could have done a lot more from a marketing perspective to really convert customers, you know, delight them, make them love Les Mills from the day they signed up. And so yeah, I think that’s been a really interesting reflection, is having that better understanding, and how do you do that without having to not, you know, get away and come back? And again, it comes back to curiosity. So how do you actually really independently try and learn and understand and step into someone else’s shoes? And that might be, you know, trying to close a deal yourself when you’re in marketing, like, go and get the sales to give you a dead lead or someone that they don’t think is going to convert and have a crack at it. And like, really, you know, trying to understand that full journey in that world. And yeah, just really wholeheartedly step into their shoes and understand what that world looks like, because that will really make you a better partner,
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah. That’s just totally wonderful. And I’d be really curious off the back of this, this whole season, how many folks have actually taken the advice and sort of done something like that, you know, seen a salesperson over lunch and sort of asked them about what they do, or, you know, as you say, sort of propose a challenge like that, or whatever it may be. I think those, those sort of really practical things. And just to really reflect on your answer there as well, to highlight once again, that curiosity point, I think is just so wonderful. Because I was quite struck a little while ago when we had a interview with the then Chief Communications Officer of Manchester United, someone called Ellie Norman. And she was just so wonderful in that curiosity piece, no ego, you know, just wanting to learn. And it made her one of the best leaders I’ve ever sort of experienced. So, and it’s very much mirrored in everything you’re saying as well here, Anna. So thank you for sharing that. Let’s go to Dan in the Q&A, because there’s a similar question on this track that we’re on presently. So Dan asks, what’s the number one thing you wish a marketer did regularly to keep you in the loop as a CEO?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I, there’s a saying that we had, and I’ve introduced it into Sticky Beak as well. And the saying is, it’s around communication. And it’s the idea of little and often. And I think the worst thing a marketer can do is to hold on to everything and do those ta-da moments. Like there’s presentations, right? You need to launch, you need to bring the hype game, you’re the marketer. But with your relationship with your CEO, the lesser prizes are better. And if they can be your ally, your cheerleader in the boardroom, whatever you need in terms of kind of getting the growth initiatives or the work going that you’re focused on, the better. But you do that by building a relationship. And so every one-on-one, every opportunity you have, you might, something might have come in from the agency, and there’s a little snippet you want to share with them. Just, and share it with one line in an email. Like don’t, it’s not about an essay email once a week. This is about little and often and updates and keeping them across what you’re doing. Because if they’re not from a marketing background, this is a steep learning curve for them too. And so how do you really help them get on that journey, understand the value of the work you’re doing? Yeah, and that might help then unlock budget, it might unlock time, it might unlock, you know, whatever it is that you need to feel like you’re then doing the work that you’re really proud of as well. So that would be my one piece of advice is think about little and often. Think about the updates that you can give every week, you know, every interaction to keep that communication alive. I love that. Thank
Speaker 1: you. And you mentioned there that folks are on a learning journey. And so I feel fortunate, you know, today you’re showing up so wonderfully and with so much empathy. But, you know, there’ll be folks who are sat in the in watching in today whose CEO may have been a former CFO or something similar. And that’s not an adversarial thing. It just means that their background is quite different. And I think about a topic such as brand, for example, which is something that we as marketers hold quite tightly and sort of believe. But then to try and educate your CEO on a topic like that can be quite tricky, particularly if you’re trying to do little and often. I wonder on that education piece, and it might be that you don’t necessarily have an answer because I don’t think many people have cracked this. But have you got any thoughts on educating your CEO, sort of educating upwards on a topic which may be in our world a little bit more than
Speaker 2: it is in theirs, so to speak? Yeah, I think there’s two parts to that. One is going back to what we were talking about earlier, which is line up on the language. And so, you know, really understand what’s important to your CEO. Like, what are they trying to do here with the business? And is your growth plan is your, you know, plan for marketing truly lined up to that strategy? Because not all but some marketers can play lip service to strategy, and then just go off and do the fun things that they want to do. And so the first thing is, like, really understanding what that strategy is. And is it about customer love? Is it about accelerated growth? Like, where are those things? And what language are they using to describe that? And what’s important? Is it value? Is it growth? You know, and so, and so then that really quickly gives you a clue in terms of what you’re doing and how that’s lining up to those things. And you need to understand that deeply before you expect you can expect someone else to. And so you’ve got to get really clear on how the work what the work is, that’s lining up to those sort of big strategic goals and use that language and just knit the things together. So, you know, you might talk about brand as in future demand. And because that’s what we’re trying to do is really accelerate growth with a new audience that we want to be, you know, sort of smashing in 18 months time. So what is the work we’re doing now to develop that future demand? Well, that’s the work we’re going to do around the brand. And so how do you kind of really help that, you know, them understand that connection and work into that? Yeah, so I think there’s a bit of bit of work in that. And then, yeah, I think it’s about just having the measurement in place as much for yourself to know that you’ve got that journey, as you thought it was going to be as well and not killing yourself in metrics, but just understanding what the signals are, what are the things we’re looking forward to, to understand that things are working, giving those regular updates, not waiting for the big monthly tada via email and a 20 page report to do that work, but to do it in every interaction. And to talk about this key number, I think this lovely piece of advice I was given is give me good news on a Friday. So I’m happy all weekend. Give me the bad news on Monday because Monday’s a shit anyway. And who cares? So, you know, you work with that to keep everyone engaged and yeah, on board and working hard.
Speaker 1: I love that. That’s just so useful. It’s interesting to me as you were speaking there, because it struck me that earlier in this chat, we were speaking about how important it is for you as a CEO to be able to articulate stuff like business vision and culture. So everyone’s on the same page. But it also struck me that not everyone is wonderful at doing that. I’m sure everyone’s had bosses in the past who will probably live in their own head and don’t necessarily articulate these things quite as well as they should. And so in the spirit of everything you’ve been speaking about today as well, I think there’s probably a job to be done for some folks in helping people articulate what they actually want to happen, because I guess that is the danger, right? About, you know, the marketer interprets it a certain way because a boss has said it once, but actually sort of helping them do the work and then sort of go, OK, you know, this thing matters to the business for this reason. And there should be a little bit of that
Speaker 2: tension, I think, between a CEO and a CMO, because if you’re not, as the CMO, if you’re not pushing the business, who is, right? Like marketing is the growth engine. It’s future demand. It’s driving the business forward. And so if you’re not that person that’s showing up to do that, what is the situation in the business? So they’re just going to optimize their way to, you know, 0.5 percent growth because without marketing, that’s, you know, you’re not going to get that growth. And that’s what we all have to passionately believe. And I was going to say fight for, but it’s the wrong word, and work hard and strive for, is being brave to have that conversation, you know, open up that door and say, look, you know, I think we’re underutilizing what we can do in marketing at the moment. And I know you’ve got big goals for this business, and it’s where marketing can help you. Let’s talk about those big goals. What does it look like in two years for our customers, for our growth, for our international expansion? Like, where is that all at? If it’s not clear, you know, what that might look like.
Speaker 1: Love that. So helpful. And I’ve got one last question on this topic, and then we’re going to head back into the Q&A from the community, because we’ve got a couple on CMO focus questions in relation to the CEO. But as you’ve stepped into this CMO role, even though you’ve had an, would have had to have an understanding of what the business would have had to do, you presumably weren’t the person setting that agenda. And so to give an insight into the CEO’s world, you know, where you’re having to set the strategy and the business goals and all that sort of stuff. How did you go about doing that? Because, and I appreciate this is your experience, rather than speaking for every CEO in the world. But that might be something that a lot of marketers don’t get privy to. They just get a business objective slapped on their desk, and it’s like, go and deliver that. So what’s that process look like for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s a really good question, because there are times when a CEO role can actually be really lonely, because you’ve got to be that person that’s got to have the answers. And sometimes you don’t have the answers. And then that can feel a bit frightening, and isolating in terms of really knowing what you should be doing. And so what I found to be really effective is to put great people around me. So having an advisory board, having just thinking partners from outside the business, especially as I came new into the role, and having the opportunity to step back and strategically look at where Sticky Beak was winning, where it wasn’t, you know, who are the customers that loved us the most? What does that look like? How do we do more of that? And you know, having the time to do that work, I personally love discernment, like I love taking problems and figuring them out. And it gives me tons of energy and what I can sometimes be a bit too in that on my own. And so I really have to force myself to kind of sense check before I fall in love too much with my ideas. So my team are used to me calling and being like, I’ve just had this random idea, and I just need to announce it with you. Oh, you’re one of those. Yeah, because otherwise I’ve gone, and I’ve gone and decided something, and no one even knows it popped into my head. And probably 50% of the time, it’ll come to mind, because I typically on a Friday, on a Monday, I’ll be like, yeah, no, I’ve actually thought that through a bit more, and I need to slow down. Or I’ll be like, you know what, we need to do that. Like, let’s get into that. How do we figure out how we do that this week? So yeah, like getting into all of that, but making sure there’s people around you that can help that set up. What I’m not good at is the big wonder, big picture stuff. And luckily, I have some really amazing founders and advisory that are all in that space. And so it’s just kind of, I think, get a really clear, no matter if you’re a marketing assistant, a brand manager, a CMO, whatever you are, get really clear on what your strengths are, and understand where your gaps might be. They’re not weaknesses, they’re just the things that don’t give you as much energy. So you tend to not prioritize them, because you prioritize the stuff that’s fun and gives you energy and, you know, brings you to life. So what are those things that isn’t, you know, it’s always on your list, but it’s somehow never gets crossed off. And so how do you get someone to help you with those things, so that you can make sure that you’ve, you know, you’ve really looked at what the opportunity is, then what the strategy is for your business. And then as you dive into each team and the operational side of it, what
Speaker 1: that plan looks like to bring it to life. Amazing. I love it. Thank you so much. And we’ve got James in the chat saying, I feel seen. And I can attest as someone who works with her every day, and I love him dearly. And I’m sure the same goes the other way around as well, actually. We all have those things. So it’s so true. Let’s head to the questions from the community. There’s 10 open questions. And folks, if you’ve got any questions that you would love prioritized, make sure to give them a thumbs up. I’ve still got a few more myself as well to lace in here, but we want to make sure we’re answering your questions from this session. So the one that’s gravitated to the top is actually one from Ollie, who says, what would you be looking for as a CEO, if you are now hiring a new CMO? And having met your head of marketing, I don’t think she carries the CMO title. Sam, I know that you’ve done a very good job of hiring your marketing person.
Speaker 2: She’s a keeper. She is a keeper. I guess in standard marketing world, it was a referral. So it was someone who knew someone. And so people and their attitude and their approach matter a lot to me. So no matter what role I was hiring, I would be hiring a human first and particularly in startup. The skills are super important, Sam’s an absolute legend. But there’s so much you’re learning every day that some of the functional stuff is less important to me. And I think it’s true at the CMO level as well, that you’re never going to be an expert across the marketing function. It’s actually impossible. You can’t be deep in SEO and threads and brand and everything. It’s just too broad and too big. But what you can be is curious, and you can be a great leader, and you can set the strategy and communicate well, and you can do all those things to get the team operating. So I think looking for that attitude is super important, looking for a passion for learning and growth and realizing that marketing is a function that’s constantly evolving and changing. And so you need to be that person. And I think as I get braver as well, it’s about looking for someone that challenges me and looks at wanting to really drive the business forward and do some new things. Because if marketing is doing the same thing that it’s done forever, it’s probably not as good as it could be, probably. And so being able to challenge that and come up with some new ideas and ways of doing things is an important
Speaker 1: skill for a marketer. 100%. And I think we mentioned Sam at the beginning of that question. I think she’s watching in, which is wild.
Speaker 2: Well, she’s in the States, so she doesn’t get as much of a gold star as I do.
Speaker 1: You get the biggest gold star. Not competitive at all. So the next question that’s gravitated to the top comes from Alison, who is asking about how much detail do CEOs really want in terms of reporting? I’ll provide the additional context here. But Alison, what I might do is ask you in the chat if there’s any additional context you can provide, because I think we’ve covered it off earlier on. But if there’s anything that we haven’t covered off that specifically you’d like to hear from, do let us know, because we’ll loop back around to it. But I’m pretty sure that we covered CEO reporting earlier, so I don’t want to go over the same territory twice. And I see that your question did come in quite early as well. So let’s move on to the next one from Sarah instead. So Sarah asks, how should you approach your CEO when marketing doesn’t have a seat at the leadership table, but the CEO has an open door policy and would like to address a concern within marketing? So I guess there is this narrative around marketing not having a seat at the top table quite regularly, which is one thing. But that relationship, if you don’t have a direct relationship with the CEO,
Speaker 2: how would you go about thinking about that? Yeah, I guess I’d speak more from my experience. And this is, again, where it’s about bravery and showing up. But if there is an open door policy and there’s an invitation to have a conversation, go and have the conversation. But really go in there to listen and learn. Don’t go in there to prove a point and get something across, because you might actually be trying to prove the wrong thing. And the reason that marketing may not feel like a priority or marketing may not feel like it’s being seen at the table might not actually quite be the case. There could be something else that kind of sits behind it. And so I think I would definitely go in there and learn and understand as much as possible about what that looks like. And maybe don’t talk about the function, but talk about the outcome of marketing. So what are our growth goals look like? What do we want our customers to think about us? How do we want to show up and deliver as this business? And dig into that a little bit more and just see if you can understand what that looks like. And then find your team internally. So just because you’ve got marketing in your job title, that doesn’t mean you’re the only marketer. And so find the group of people that have the same belief and drive that you do to make sure that the work that marketing is doing is better resource, better prioritized, because it’s going to achieve better outcomes. This is not going to make sure this is not personal and about you doing pet projects. This is about you knowing that what you do can really achieve the business’s outcomes and line up to strategy. So get clear on that and then get your team alongside you. And if you don’t have a seat directly at the top table, make sure someone else is really clear and got your voice. And that doesn’t have to be one person. It can be three or four. You can be infiltrating through finance. You can get in there. However, you need to get in there. Jump around those lunchroom tables and develop those relationships
Speaker 3: and get seated. I love that so much. Infiltration.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I talk about the pincer movement a lot. I’m like, if you can just get that person to be like thinking about what you mean, and then those people, they might meet. And then all of a sudden, they’re talking about this problem. That’s so great. I got to say, whenever I go to dinner
Speaker 1: parties, I mean, it may just be me. But you know, when I say I’m a marketer, then people’s eyes glaze over. But you’re making it sound so exciting right now. I just want to pick up on a few comments here as a 2.43 AM pick me up for you as well. So we’ve got Kat who’s saying it’s so refreshing to hear someone say you can’t be an expert in everything. We’ve got Celia saying they love the emphasis on curiosity and continuous learning. We’ve got Montserrat saying you are restoring her faith in the work market just by listening to you. We’ve got Ollie who’s saying you’re so refreshing to hear. And there’s so much more. So lots of good things. And Alison has fed back to us as well and said that they feel that the question has mostly been covered on reporting. So that’s all good. Let’s head to a question from Alice. And it’s about budgeting and approvals. And again, this might be a personal preference thing. But I think it’s something that a lot of marketers will face on a day to day. So Alice asks, as a CEO, how do you prefer a marketer to approach you to get something approved? Do you prefer an email, a message, a meeting, someone dropping by your desk? And I guess I want to flip it out a little bit more and sort of say, you know, someone comes to you with a request for 20 grand of spend, you know, so a lot of money, but not a ginormous amount of money. How do you start to think about these things and budget and approve things? Because presumably you get quite a lot across your desk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think my questions will always be just around kind of probing into it a little bit. So I would personally, I would prefer to have a conversation. But, you know, I think that’s one of the first things you’d ask as well. Like actually ask this question to your CEO and say, hey, there’ll be time to time when things come up that might be outside of my delegation. It’s a bit of a bigger budget spend than what we’d normally do. And I’d actually really value your input. What’s the best way we can have that conversation? Do you want me to bring it up in our one-on-ones? Should I flick you through some notes beforehand? Like get their buy-in, get their agreement. If they say, look, just flick me an email, it’ll be fine. Then say, oh, you know, remember our chat, you said when this budget thing happened, you said just flick you an email. So here’s a little bit more. And so then you’ve lined, you know, there’s no surprises. You’ve lined up to what they’ve asked you to do. And the process part, the communication part is not the challenge. It’s what you’re communicating is the bit that you can have the proper kind of discussion around. So for me, I love to have that as a conversation and be prepared for some questions from me. So I’ll say, cool, what do you think we’ll get from that? And where might that line up to other work that we’re doing? And like, if we were measuring success on that, what would we kind of be talking about in a couple of months time? Like what would we, what would good look like? And like, I know it’s marketing, right? So it’s hard to put answers on those things, but I just want to hear the thinking behind it. What I want to know is that you’ve thought about it and that you broadly understand that this is a growth initiative and that you think this is actually going to be really good at delving into a new audience. You might not be a hundred percent sure, but good would look like if we got eight leads off the back of this and that would feel really good. And so then I go, okay, well, that’s blah number divided by eight. Does that feel about right? Yeah, actually that does feel about right. That’s a good number. What did, what did your mate in sales say about it? Oh, cool. Well, go and talk to them because it’s going to be part of something that they’re going to need to know about too. And, you know, so it’s about, it’d be about that sort of conversation to make sure that, because the money’s the money, but the effectiveness of the money is what I’d be just trying to understand a bit better. And, and whether this is something that yeah, has a, has a wider business impact, because maybe we’re not spending enough, maybe we need to spend more on that initiative. And you’ve come up with this beautiful golden nugget. And, and it might be about, well, have you, let’s have a chat with them to see if we can accelerate that further and do more of that thing that you’re wanting to try out. But let’s, yeah, understand what success looks like, how integrated, you know, collaboration, what does that look like and go from there. I love that. And what’s really useful
Speaker 1: about everything you’ve said there, I mean, not only the tactical advice that you’ve given, but actually, it’s so funny, because I can feel my emotional reaction to like, the questioning, you know, so what are we going to get from it? And, and, you know, how’s it line up? There’s a small part of me, which immediately goes, oh, a little bit on the defensive, a little bit, you know, because having to, well, I think wrongly, my mindset goes to having to justify myself, when actually that’s probably not the right word, you know, what we’re speaking about here is a collaboration. And so for you, in this situation, you’re just looking to understand. And I think that’s probably a really interesting and useful dynamic shift. Undoubtedly, there are going to be, as there are in every corporation, going to be some toxic people who are looking to interrogate and make you justify. But I think what you represent here is a really healthy thing, which is looking to understand and looking to see if we can do it better and stuff like that. And that
Speaker 2: questioning shouldn’t be scary. Not at all. And if it does feel scary, just give yourself some space to say, just tell me a bit more about that question. What does that mean? And just give yourself a moment. And then it gives them a moment to be like, oh, no, I didn’t actually mean it like that. What I’m what I’m trying to figure out is da da da da da da. So if you feel like you’re having that response of like, question my spend, and give yourself a moment to be like, how can you just explain that a little bit more to me? Like, just give yourself a moment to get your thoughts together. And then if and don’t rush into it either, if that’s not your style as well, because I’m a very direct person, I like bouncing things. And if that’s not your style, then if if you don’t feel like you’ve come in quite prepared as much as you’d like, or the question was not one of the ones that you had prepared, and you’d like really to be prepared, then say, look, that’s a great question. I’d like to answer that properly for you. Let me go in and pull some things together. What do you want to do to catch back up so we can talk about it? Or should I email it through to you? And so then, you know, like, give yourself time and space to to figure that that stuff out as well. We, we had this language we used at Les Mills, which is adult child, adult to adult child to child. And so if you find yourself being the child, and you’ve given this person permission to be the parent, then you’re not it’s not going to be a good conversation. So you need to jump up and be an adult too, and have an adult to adult conversation. Or, or you can both be children and have a fun conversation. That’s good, too. But adult to child in the workplace, you know, it’s not a it’s not a good healthy style, you know, with that kind of power thing going on. So get yourself to be the adult, have an adult adult, if you can’t get yourself there, because sometimes you just can’t get yourself there. And you think, God, what a prick to ask me that. Then give yourself some space. And come back when you can be an adult and have a conversation or when maybe they need some time to be an adult and, and it’ll be but it’s never going to probably be a great one if it’s adult to child.
Speaker 1: I think that’s such a great reminder. Endlessly useful. Thank you. And, you know, I think it speaks volumes for yourself as well. Because if we’re being honest, there is, there is a power dynamic just by title alone. And whether you like it or not, you know, that’s kind of what happens, you know, and so to to have the mindset of being willing to go into these conversations, adult to adult and not put other people in that situation. I think that’s the mark of leadership.
Speaker 2: You can control that. Yeah, that’s in your power to have that mindset. You can go in and say, they’re the boss, I have to do everything the boss says, I’m, you know, long live the boss. Or you can go in and say, they’re really good at that stuff. And that’s what makes them have that title. I’m really good at this stuff. That’s what makes me have this title. Let’s have a chat about
Speaker 1: how those two things come together. The way you go. I love it. Thank you. And that’s that’s really, really helpful. We’re, we’re coming towards the close. And there’s some questions in the Q&A that are themed around career. And so there’s three questions. So I’m not going to name them here because I’m going to try and combine them into one so that we can we can get a proper answer for as many folks as possible. So the questions in the Q&A speak to, there was one person asking about being an early stage marketer. So very early in their career, and they were asking about general career advice for getting ahead. There’s then another question, which was about making the transition to CMO and the things that people can do to prepare to get to CMO. And then there was a third question, which was about that transition from CMO to CEO, and the things that you did to prepare there. It may be that the answer is the same answer for each of those things, which is why I’m asking them together. But what are the skills, traits, attitudes, probably beyond curiosity that we’ve spoken about at length today, that have set you up for your marketing career and subsequently your CEO sort of tenure, so to speak?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you’re right. I think it’s a lot of the same things through the different stages of your career. The first one, which I’ve been really lucky to have opportunities to do is literally around taking opportunities. And so being presented with things that are scary and a bit different, might feel like a zig or a zag, but taking them. Because the worst case is you learn something, and you might learn that that’s not your vibe, and that’s not actually what’s going to drive you forward. But that’s awesome. If you haven’t listened to the Brené Brown, Angela Duckworth podcast on grit, listen to that. It’s a really good way of sort of understanding how sampling things, and they’re not what you want to do, is just as good as finding something that you love, because it really helps you kind of focus in and find out what you’re into. So no matter how scary, no matter how much you tell yourself that you can’t do it, or all of that stupid stuff that happens in your head, go for it. And me moving to the CMO role, I had a real like, like, not speaking my own, like not listening to my own advice moment in there. So I had this like, it’s, I’m not going to be able to do it. It’s a big job. I’ve got young children. It’s, that’s a lot. And then I started looking at people that they were interviewing, and I was like, I could, I could do it. Maybe I could do it. And it was actually really interesting conversation with my boss at the time, because it was a bit of an understanding of what I needed as well. So what I heard him say was, it’s going to be really hard, and it’s going to be big, and it’s challenging. And so I heard, oh, he doesn’t think I’m ready. But I didn’t ask the question. I just assumed, oh, not really. And what he was asking, or he was challenging me was, are you up for this? Like, I want to know that you’re up for this. Because if you’re up for it mentally, I think you can do it. But I heard, you can’t do it. And so took a stupid, a long period for us to actually figure out that we both wanted the same thing. We were just coming at it from quite different angles. And what I wanted was, we ended up calling it a short handhold. So it’s just that little moment where someone, it feels like someone’s holding your hand, and they’ve got your back. And they’re like, this is going to be hard. This is going to be challenging. But you’ve got this, and you can do it. And it’s a short little handhold to get you through that. So take the opportunities, but look for the handholds, and look for people that can kind of help you through that stage, because it is scary, and different. But the other thing I talk about a lot too, especially with new parents, and, you know, different kind of funny moments in our career, where we feel like we should be doing all these things, because other people are, and whatever else, is just do what’s right right now. And try not to get wrapped up too much in what that means in five years time. And this could be completely different advice from other people, like have a five-year plan, do all the things. I like a bit of uncertainty in my life. If you don’t like uncertainty, this might not be advice for you. But I found it easier for me to make decisions, and to, you know, my whole life decisions, the family, work, everything, by thinking about, well, what’s right right now? What, you know, what stage are the kids at? What does that mean for daycare drop-offs and pickups, and me, where I live, and where I work, and what the opportunity is, and the travel that might be in there? And is that right right now? Because it’s not the one and only opportunity for that opportunity. And if it is right right now, then let’s go and get into it, and know that in a year’s time, there might be a different right right now. And that’s okay too.
Speaker 1: That’s gorgeous. Two things strike me as you speak. The first is how much can be solved with just relaxing your shoulders and kind of going through life a little bit less tense. I don’t know whether that’s just me, you know, but I can feel the tension in my shoulders a lot of time. And then when you release that and put a smile on your face, not always easy, but when you can, it’s a wonderful thing. And the second is that, you know, I broadly define a life lived without regret is just making one where you’re making the best decisions you can with the information you have at the time. And it’s just another rephrasing of what you’ve said, really. But I fully agree. And that really resonated. So so thank you. And hopefully, a little bit of pressure can just be removed from some of the folks watching in as well today. We’re coming towards the end. We’ve got we’ve got four minutes left. But there is a lovely question. And I say lovely, in in the sense that it’s something which I’m sure folks can resonate with from an anonymous attendee who asks, I don’t know why I say ask, I usually say ask. Anyway, they say, what do you how would you deal with a meddling CEO who interferes with marketing campaigns gets into the detail other than moving to a different company with a different culture? I feel like this anonymous person might know me.
Speaker 2: I don’t know. It’s hard. It’s really hard. And, you know, when your role in marketing, your number one role becomes stakeholder management, if that’s not your vibe, it’s tough. So I don’t know, maybe two ways to look at this. One is the adult to adult answer. So have the conversation and sit down and just kind of understand what’s driving that meddling, because maybe they don’t know it’s meddling and maybe they’re just super into creative and they really love it. And so maybe you can just bring creative to your one on one. You can print some stuff out and you can just get them excited about the work and try and sort of get a little bit of space by not having to dive in to find it, but for you to better sort of provide it. But yeah, see if you can figure out what it is that’s getting them in there. And then maybe there’s also a bit of a role for you with your team. So how do you galvanize your team around that and stay really tight so that, you know, because sometimes if you’ve got a flying in CEO or sales or whatever it is, they can start to fracture what’s going on too, right? And kind of break focus. And then you end up having to spend a bit of time kind of bringing people back on the journey again and reprioritizing the work and all of that fun stuff. But my maybe slightly child answer is do what’s right right now. And you’ve got one life and some people are people and some people aren’t changeable and some people are just the way they are. But there’s millions of us out there and maybe there’s a CEO that’s brilliant fit for you and loves what you do. And that might not look like a Fortune 500 business. That might not look like saying I work for this company and all your friends being like, oh, you work for Apple. And so there might be some less ego kind of stuff in there like that. But you’re going to have a really cool time having a role with some people that you love working with and creating work that you’re proud of. So not like maybe not the most mature answer the second half. Put yourself first and your happiness. People are people that are hard to shift in terms of their approach and attitude. And yeah, and so if that’s not your style, and that’s not how you are at your best working in that sort of environment, find one where you are.
Speaker 1: Amazing. Thank you so much. And we don’t strive for maturity here. We strive for grounded reality. And I think you spoke to that. So thank you. Anna, you’ve just been incredible. I mean, if I functioned at 2am like you have for the past hour.
Speaker 4: You do. You’ve got children.
Speaker 1: I’m just sweating, bouncing them off, trying to rock them to sleep. So that’s me at that point. And honestly, it’s been such a joy. So thank you for taking the time. There’s been just an abundance of praise for you in today’s session. And thank you, everyone, for just your wicked questions as well. I feel like it’s been a real load of fun, like genuinely. So thank you all for contributing and make this what it is. This is our last webinar for a month, which is wild. We’re taking a break and relaxing, hopefully. We are going to be launching a summer school for everyone who’s interested, likely to be themed around AI and social media. So we’ll send that via email. We also announced our conference last week as well. So if you haven’t heard about either of those two things, do head to our website. But in the meantime, Anna, you’re an absolute hero. Thank you to everyone watching today. That was an awful lot of fun. And I hope you have a really brilliant summer, everyone. Thank you for just this wonderful time. I feel very, very lucky indeed. All right. Cheers, Anna. And take care, everyone. Have a great time. See you. Bye-bye.