Five steps to building a fulfilling marketing career and life

Table of Contents

• 1. Personal Understanding
• 2. Holistic Development
• 3. Goal Setting
• 4. Proactive Career Ownership
• 5. Well-being and Resilience
• 6. Handling Overwhelm
• 7. Advice for Different Career Stages
• 8. Burnout Prevention
• 9. Small Actions Matter
• 10. The Power of Purpose
• Transcript

Here are the key takeaways from the session “5 Steps to Building a Fulfilling Marketing Career and Life”:

1. Personal Understanding

• Define your strengths, values, and drivers.
• Acknowledge what gives you energy and focus on incorporating those elements into your life and work.
• Understand and own your unique contributions to reduce imposter syndrome and comparison.

2. Holistic Development

• Success in marketing requires a balance of technical skills (strategy, insights), human skills (communication, leadership), and personal awareness.
• Constantly evolve by staying curious and updating your skills to meet the changing demands of the profession.

3. Goal Setting

• Align your goals with your values and vision for life. Create emotionally engaging and meaningful goals.
• Use tools like vision boards to visually represent your goals and tap into your Reticular Activating System (RAS) to focus your brain on achieving them.
• Take small, consistent steps toward your goals to avoid overwhelm.

4. Proactive Career Ownership

• Take control of your career path instead of letting it happen to you. Be intentional about your decisions and movements.
• Identify gaps in your skills or experiences and proactively address them through learning, mentorship, or hands-on projects.

5. Well-being and Resilience

• Identify your “energy non-negotiables” (e.g., sleep, exercise, connection) and treat them as priorities.
• Build strong relationships and lean on your “seven-minute people” for support.
• Address signs of burnout early by reassessing priorities, setting boundaries, and asking for help.

6. Handling Overwhelm

• Use a “white sheet of paper” exercise to list out everything on your plate, then prioritise and eliminate unnecessary tasks.
• Create grounding rituals to establish certainty and calm your mind.

7. Advice for Different Career Stages

• Early career: Explore, get exposure to various marketing functions, and “breadcrumb” what excites you. Focus on building foundational skills and personal understanding.
• Mid/senior career: Define what fulfillment means to you and align your role with your values and strengths. Be transparent about your goals if you’re seeking a role that feels like a step down in seniority but aligns with your needs.

8. Burnout Prevention

• Burnout is caused by prolonged stress, perfectionism, or a “be strong” driver. Recognise these traits and counteract them with self-care, small wins, and boundaries.
• Address burnout by focusing on activities that play to your strengths and values.

9. Small Actions Matter

• Progress happens through small, incremental steps. Celebrate every win, no matter how small, to encourage further action.

10. The Power of Purpose

• Your purpose combines your values, passions, skills, and talents. Reflect on these elements to create a career and life you find fulfilling.

Transcript

hello lovely humans it’s so lovely to see you happy 2025 what an absolute pleasure um that

0:09is like that your your chat feature has already made my day uh so thank you all so so much for uh for for turning up and

0:17uh being so so lovely uh hello Hannah uh Silverstein welcome back uh hey Nicole

0:24uh and hello everyone uh saying hello in the chat feature right now if you haven’t already do pop in the chat

0:30feature uh where you’re watching from um if you haven’t already uh make sure to switch your messages uh so uh everyone

0:39can see your messages so the way you do that is you head into your chat feature uh you’ll see presently if there’s a toggle there that says two host and

0:45panelists and you want to switch it over uh to everyone then everyone can see your messages and once you’ve done that

0:52then uh then do say where you’re watching from as I can see uh so many of

0:57you have already uh the enthusiasm knows no bounds which is just so fabulous

1:03thank you um it means the absolute world uh I want to read out the names but they’re going too quick uh so let’s

1:10first uh say hello to Abby uh so Abby is our speaker today her Linked In is

1:16linked in the QR code right there now we’ve been trying to get Abby involved in the marketing Meetup for ages not

1:22through lack of any of aby’s enthusiasm uh just about finding the right Gap the

1:29right time to bring her along and this felt like the right moment because we’ve entered this new year and uh you know

1:36it’s so easy to sort of despite my enthusiasm today sort of get caught up in these big ideas that you need to

1:43change your world and and and do all these things but for a lot of us the reality is is quite different that dayto

1:49day we just want to sort of get through get through the next day uh and keep on going uh in a very very uh sincere way

1:56and and happy way most of the time so uh that’s what this new season is all about it’s about creating some sustainability

2:02some healthy habits these opportunities uh to hopefully be a bit more sustainable in our life and Abby is a a

2:09wonderful human who I admire um who has some thoughts and is here to share them today uh thank you by the way for

2:16everyone popping in already uh Sean I’m glad your sound has been sorted uh

2:22Chanel hey from Sweden you got snow we got Bagel who’s fabulous and been such a

2:28journey in London over these past years Stella in Cape Town Oliver in Birmingham

2:33folks in Leicester suffk Etc Dublin uh it just keeps on going so thank you all so so much before we get going with

2:40today’s session I want to say a big thank you to this spe featured sponsor who are frontify now we got in touch

2:45with frontify last week and sort of said hey what do you want to tell the community about and I’ve got to give you

2:51a little bit of a secret in that they are just the nicest nicest people there’s a person called anako who works there who does a phenomenal job and

2:58they’re like well you know we’re we’re going to be given a bunch to the community this year but at the moment we just need to tell them where it’s coming

3:04so frontify are a damn solution they help you bring all your brand assets into a single place they make your job

3:10as a marketer easier and over the next year we’re going to be giving you a bunch of stuff from frontify uh which

3:16will hopefully help and they’re starting off with that spirit so do take the time to check them out also a big thank you

3:23to uh frontify story block Cambridge marketing College planable Red Gate and score app if we didn’t do the if we

3:29didn’t have our sponsors then we would be able to bring these sessions to you so they’re simply amazing human beings and with all that said I’m

3:37getting slightly breathless because I think I’ve got a bit enthusiastic uh Abby it’s now over to you but a big big

3:43big big thank you to everyone in the chat for uh just being absolutely unbelievable let’s

3:50go well Happy New Year everyone and as Joe said it always comes with a lot of

3:55pressure to think about what your new goals are for the year ahead and so I just want to say that I actually

4:01personally don’t set my goals till February I always give myself the month of January as a Break um to allow me to

4:08percolate and reflect on the things I’ve done in the year year gone by uh before I set but today I’m here to kick off the

4:16Year by talking to you about the five steps to a successful but most

4:21importantly in my opinion fulfilling career um I’m just going to talk to you a little bit about me on paper before I

4:27talk to you about me in soul and I talk to me about me and soul because soul is so important our personal understanding

4:34is so important when we really think about what it is that we want from our lives and our careers as a whole so I’m

4:40an award-winning marketer and marketing consultant I have been training marketers for 17 years now also an

4:48accredited capability consultant I’m also a coach so a lot of what I talk to you about today are some reflective

4:54questions or some coaching principles um I’m a columnist of marketing week and

4:59most of you probably know me as the author and podcast host of the whole marketer so what about me and soul

5:07though CU that’s me on paper and I’m going to talk to you a little bit about

5:13my purpose and my purpose is to help marketers to grow I’m looking at the thing that I am passionate about with

5:19the thing that I’m really good at so training and coaching and empowering and coupling that with the thing that I

5:26really want to bring to the world my values around helping others General it growth connection and I’m going to talk

5:32today quite a lot about M your values and the role that they can play in not only setting your goals but also in

5:39allowing you to get that level of fulfillment that you need to thrive in our challenging yet rewarding

5:46profession um as I said I’m passionate about marketing I’m passionate about marketing being the change makers um I

5:53really want us to feel that we can stand in our own have the power to lead that

5:58long-term commercial agenda of the brands and businesses we work for a lot of the work I do is about making sure

6:04that you feel both supported and empowered in this challenging yet rewarding profession and why because I

6:10want you to have successful and fulfilling careers and life as a whole and that’s what we’re going to talk about today so in summary today we are

6:17talking about five steps um that you can take today from today in order to have a

6:24successful and fulfilling career so number one um develop yourself holistic

6:30and this is where the whole marketer concept comes from this is taken from me

6:37as a trainer knowing what those technical skills are the mindset and beliefs that I see of the marketers that

6:42really accelerate and really thrive in today’s challenging rewarding profession but also acknowledging the shift that

6:48we’ve made as a profession which is you know we’ve moved from a support function to one leading the long-term commercial

6:54agenda or for many of us still on that Journey but it’s not just the what we do it’s the how we do it and the why we do

7:01it so the how those soft skills or as I say the human skills the leadership

7:08skills so to lead that long-term commercial agenda to lead the marketeers in our care to lead authentically to

7:15have the soft skills to have the Curiosity to have the resilience to have

7:21the uh drive and can do attitude to make plans happen but also to harness the

7:27stakeholders and the communications that’s happening in the organization and then last but by no

7:32means least the most important element is I believe the personal understanding and that’s what I’m going to talk to you

7:37about today the What the how and the

7:43why and what I’ll also say is what I also love about a profession is it’s

7:48ever evolving ever changing and so it’s not always about having the core skills

7:55the technical skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda to write the strategy to make the strategic choices

8:00to write your Tactical plan to set your kpis on Roi to have the actual insight

8:05to make all of those things happen it is about also evolving and keeping a breast of the changes so you know tip number

8:12one is a think about how I’m going to develop myself holistically do I have the technical skills the soft skills the

8:18leadership skills in order to achieve the future goal or the current goal that I want to have am I thinking about

8:25myself holistically in my development and am i setting goals around that and I’ve just noticed I’ve got a little typo

8:31there where I’ve written community and that’s you know a mistake on purpose because almost that was the thing that’s

8:37just started changing we’ve just started talking about how we can get insight from communities I thought I better

8:42update my slide and I’ve updated it so correct so quickly that I’ve actually spelled it incorrectly so there you go

8:49that’s how quickly as a marketing profession we are changing and evolving so that’s number one number two

8:56is as I said the most import important thing is our personal understanding it’s the thing that separates as I always see

9:03from all the thousands of marketers that I’ve trained over the years and all the marketers that I’ve worked with that separates for the best from the rest we

9:10have um always worked with someone that is really technically great at their job

9:17but they can’t get anyone to buy into their plan they haven’t got the um let’s

9:22say the human skills to be able to connect and get stakeholders bought into the idea and they can’t drive the motivation behind others behind that

9:29idea and making things happen and that’s why it’s so important that we need really need to build our personal

9:35understanding so when I talk about personal understanding what am I talking about now self-awareness self-awareness

9:43for me is what we are like to be around and I think most of us have probably done some sort of Personality profiling

9:50test whether that’s a Myers Briggs whether that’s a dis whether that’s an Insight or color wheel you know drop in

9:56the drop in the chat box if you’ve done one of those many many things and for me they are really important but for me

10:03they are only the first layer of the onion okay yeah ESFJ there thank you

10:08Rachel uh bit of M Briggs yep we’ve all got the one that we’ve done right or the multiple ones that we’ve done but for me

10:14they are very much if you think about an onion the layer whether you are a a brown onion a red onion a white onion a

10:21shot they’re very much the thing that you what you would like to be around they’re great because they give us a Common Language uh they allow us to

10:28understand people potentially that we work with and the ways in which we should communicate with them but they are very much a starter for 10 I always

10:36give the analogy that it’s like dividing the whole population into a box of one of 16 because most of these have a 4×4

10:43grid concept so great for that first layer of the onion what would like to be around but really it’s for us to go

10:49deeper and so here’s are the things that I want you to go deeper with I want you to also identify if you haven’t done so

10:56already what your strengths are and what your strength of that you are that you enjoy um not the same as a talent a

11:04talent is a thing that you are naturally good at you have absolutely no reason why that you are good at it um but it is

11:10something you’re also good at so the thing that you are good at naturally and you don’t know why for me it’s about

11:16being really great on a grab a machine at the arcade I have absolutely no idea why but I absolutely a queen at it

11:23versus a strength which is something that I have learned and developed over time and also something that I enjoy

11:29and the reason I use the word enjoy is because as we come on to later the benefit of having your personal

11:35understanding is in order to build our resilience to think about our well-being

11:40and to think about having the energy that we need to do the jobs and for Life as a whole doing things that give us

11:45energy I.E things that play to our strengths is really important the other thing is to not only identify these but

11:51to own these so for people that have imposter syndrome or that that that

11:57suffer as I like to say suffer as bit of a strong word that also experience comparison itis when you start comparing

12:03yourself to others it’s usually because we’ve not connected to the thing that is ownable to us I have something on my

12:09desk here that I look at every day and it says by being yourself you put something wonderful that wasn’t in the

12:15world before and once we really connect with that thing that we bring to the world that wasn’t there before I find

12:21that that comparison itis and that impostor syndrome starts to lessen because it’s less about what you’re

12:27doing versus or what somebody else is thinking about what you’re doing it’s about you connecting the thing that you know that you uniquely are good at and

12:33worry slightly less about the things that you’re not good at yet the next thing or the next layer of the onion is

12:40your values and for me having learned my values is what actually fueled me to

12:46want to come and train to become a coach so you know your values are the things that you hold of high importance in your

12:53life that are things that you deem of high importance and that when you’re doing something that plays to your values it will fill up your cup when

13:00you’re doing something that doesn’t align with your values it will take away some of that energy from you it will

13:06drain you um and defining your values so that you know what motivates you is really important um but also that you

13:14understand how that use that understanding in order to Define your goals to set your vision to define the

13:19right role um to think about the type of leader you could be there are so many different uh different applications for

13:26the usage of values and for those that have haven’t learned their values yet um there is actually a workbook on the

13:33whole marketer website that you can go and use and download to Define them yourselves the next is about what drives

13:39and motivates you and drives when I say drives I also mean drivers drivers so we

13:45have a whole host of drivers from people pleaser to try harder to perfectionist

13:52all of those drivers they are they are built from our subconscious and experience that we’ve had po potentially

13:58potentially particularly during our childhood and it’s not to say that they are good or

14:04bad it’s about understanding what does drive you so that you can understand the impact that they may have on you on a

14:09day-to-day basis and the way in which you show up in the world and the way in which you work and it’s also really

14:15important to Define what motivates you like what do you need in order to be motivated I’m going to talk a lot more

14:21about this as we go on this afternoon because those the basis of those elements of understanding also are the

14:28things that we need to reflect in and plan against to make sure that we are building our resilience levels up and

14:34making sure that we’re purposeful and intentful with what we’re doing to build our well-being so having Define those

14:40things it’s like well how do we use that personal understanding to Define our purpose to set our vision and to set our

14:47goals and I’ll give you some tools in a minute about how to do each of those

14:53things so why is that so important for me fulfillment Lies when we are doing

14:58things that play to our values and when we are edging closer to our goals doing those little small

15:05incremental movements every single day that are edging us closer to our goals but in order to get that fulfillment we

15:11need to be able to set our goals and also to make them emotionally attached to us we need to make sure that we are

15:17also building values uh goals that are based on our values or something we emotionally excited

15:23about so once we have that understanding you know that can give us the energy and

15:28help build our resilience in many ways the first thing is that when we are doing something that plays to our

15:33strengths we get energy we get a dopamine hit we get a stroke we get something that uplifts us so when we’re

15:39doing strengths doing something that play to our strengths that we enjoy we get energy when we are doing something

15:45that plays to our values it’s filling up our cup and when we are doing things that edges closer to our goals we are

15:51getting that level of fulfillment now all doing all of those things will allow us to have the energy and the resilience

15:57to thrive and our challenge get reward in profession but also to have the energy to achieve those goals that we

16:03want to achieve and not forgetting well-being

16:09you know energy comes not only from doing things that play to our strengths it also comes from sleep which Joe and I

16:16were talking about before this call which is very important to me um as is as is eating the right things and that’s

16:22not for me to sit here and lecture on those things that’s not my area of expertise but it is really important to

16:28do think about the things that give you energy and make sure that you are listing those out they become

16:34non-negotiables and that you are communicating those needs and setting boundaries around them I have here

16:40actually my list of my energy non-negotiables and I would encourage everyone to to have a list or at least

16:46think about what it is that you need and for me sleep’s on the list time alone is on the list monthly trips to cornall are

16:53on the list walking three times a week is on the list um making sure that I connect with a friend cuz one of my

16:59values is connection at least once a week um it’s making sure that I at least go to the gym once a week I don’t really

17:05like the gym but it does it is important for my well-being as is those daily walks of perspective okay what are those

17:12things that are important to you what the prioritize and how do you make sure that you set boundaries and communicate

17:18them to others as well because they become your non-negotiables the next is future Focus there is a

17:25saying that we can deal with anything in the here and now as long as we know where we’re going and that’s why setting

17:31your vision is so important so that setback that stress inducing thing that

17:37thing that’s not going quite to plan if we know where we are heading we are much more able to deal with the here and

17:44now the next that’s really important to maintaining our well-being is our inner drive so what is our purpose why are we

17:51getting out of bed every morning what’s the thing that we are working towards and the last but by no means least are

17:57strong relationships I heard an um analogy recently given by I think it was Simon senic and he talked about who are

18:04your seven minute people who are your seven minutes that you could message them and say have you

18:09got seven minutes and they would know that that’s code for you need to rant you need to vent you need to perspective

18:15you need a sounding board you need some empathy you need someone to resonate with you you need someone to tell you

18:21you’re not going crazy you know who are your seven minute people and it’s really important that we make sure that we have

18:27all of those things in place at any one time to maintain our

18:33well-being just going to stop and look at the chat why we sleep here great

18:40book this two Shall Pass I’ve been I’ve been publicly venting around my sleep so sorry about that

18:47Abby not at all um and I love a nap we before I love a nap you know for me if I

18:53have had a a deep thinking morning or a very busy morning I love a process nap absolutely absolutely love that now I

19:01know that the the series has also um been set up with by Joe um to look at

19:07burnout and I’m also someone very passionate about addressing the rising

19:13cases of burnout in the profession um why well because I actually suffered

19:18from burnout and it is not something that I would wish on anyone um true

19:24burnout and I use the word true because I think a lot of people start started using the terminology go I’m burning out

19:30which is obviously you’re on the way to burn it to burnout but true burnout is basically your body stops because you

19:37have not said but your body says no because you’ve not said no okay true burnout is exhaustion you can’t get out

19:44of bed you can’t think about work you can’t do the thing that you need to do okay and so I went off and did some

19:50research when spoke to Specialists went and spoke to a doctor in the in the area

19:56I interviewed lots of marketers as part of my podcast series series and these are the themes that I personally

20:02identified that are the drivers for Burnout the first was a period of prolonged stress so that prolonged

20:09stress could be work related it could be life related it doesn’t matter it means

20:14that for a period of time your cortisol is is high your fight fight is high you

20:21are in a period of prol stress and you know it can be work it can be life it can be a combination of those things and

20:28the other was those that were more particularly prone to burning out those drivers that I mentioned earlier had a

20:34people pleas a driver a Perfection driver or a be strong driver so they weren’t asking for help um naturally

20:42they were really concerned about what other people thought um and they were also uh always striving for Perfection

20:49now that’s not to say those are the wrong drivers to have it’s just being mindful that if you do have those drivers that you are going to be more

20:55likely to burn out now before today’s we web inar I thought to myself well if I was to do another formula what would be

21:01the thing to not burn out but to thrive and for me it’s making sure that if you

21:07are experiencing prolonged stress and you know that you have those drivers that make you more prone to burnout that

21:13you put even more of a focus on your well-being and doing things that play to your values and give you energy to

21:19offset that uh potential burnout and to make sure that we are thriving not just

21:25surviving so number one develop yourself

21:31holistically think about your technical your self skills your leadership your personal understanding two really deep

21:38dive into your personal understanding what is it that you need what gives you energy what do you value what’s of high

21:44importance what uh what motivates you and use that understanding to not only

21:50do those things that give you energy but also make sure that you use that understanding to set priorities about

21:56the things that you need and the boundaries around them so number three let’s get

22:01clear so in order to set those goals personally there’s many different ways in which people set goals but for me I

22:08start with a vision what is it I want for my life as a whole and I’ll come on

22:13to how I do that in a second I then set smart goals I wouldn’t be a marketer if I didn’t have a smart goal in here

22:19somewhere okay so of that Vision what are the things that I want to achieve for that year and therefore what does

22:26that look like as a smart movement in year I also how can we use that

22:32understanding to get really clear on what that future career goal is as well and defining your ideal role and for me

22:39it’s not about chasing the job title it’s about making sure the role has the

22:45right content in it for you to for you to feel fulfilled and I’ll talk about that in a second and then the other is

22:51to get really clear you know just as we do as marketers we set a vision we set strategic objectives you know we look at

22:57those goals that we need to achieve and then we start planning we start phasing in the year the things that we need to make those things

23:03reality I can see the chat box is exploding so I’m just G to have a quick look

23:10here we just just to annotate while while you’re speaking through that and

23:16just a A really lovely interaction between uh Sarah Helen uh Jess and my my

23:25heart was just really warmed there in in the chat feature with uh you really supporting each other so um as much as

23:31Abby May describe it in a moment I just say thank you because um this is what it’s all about and um I don’t want to

23:36let that ever go go unnoticed I’ll shut up now but back over to you AB thank you

23:43I can’t wait to read read that l a sec um the first is I start with a vision um and everyone can do vision boards in

23:49different ways but this is just uh one that was actually done by someone I’ve I’ve coached and what I loved about it

23:55was that it was the values was heart and Center of her vision board so she took a value she knows what’s a deep important

24:01what are the things that I want to do against that and then visually brought that to life and why visually is so

24:08important is that we have a part of our brain called the Raz the reticulating activating system and that part of our

24:14brain actually filters based on images of things that we’ve seen it’s the reason why when you’re looking for a new

24:21car all you can see is cars on the road okay the second the brain thinks that you need something it will start

24:27filtering all the things that we every single day um to the things that are important to us so by having that

24:32Clarity visually of what it is that you’re trying to achieve um we can then start to set goals now personally I set

24:39vision board some people do this digitally some people cut magazines out but for me it’s really important that it

24:45has a representation or Vis representation of all the things that you want to do um so this one here talks

24:51about um her family how she wants to express herself there was a want to write a book there for children the time

24:58that she wants to make sure she’s spending doing dance you know all of those things um for me personally now my

25:03vision has vision board has a combination of things that I want to achieve on my bucket list um experiences

25:10I want to have where I’d like to take the whole marketer things I’d like to do with my boys um it has you know things I

25:18need no need to underpin so some of those energy non-negotiables so it has I

25:23going to the gym once a week and feeling strong you know it really reflects the life that you want to to live as a

25:29whole the next is the purpose now there are many ways in which you can set your purpose but this is personally how I set

25:37mine um values so those things that we deem of high importance as I mentioned earlier minor generosity helping others

25:45connection growth um and and and honesty almost forgot my fifth value then uh

25:52honesty I then look at the things that I am passionate about the causes that I’m passionate about so let’s say my passion

25:58is very much about helping the marketing profession I look at the things that I am skilled at so I’m skilled at training

26:05I’m skilled at marketing expertise I’m skilled at knowing the skills that marketers need but also what are my

26:11talents I’d like to think that I’m very good at connecting with others okay um something that comes quite natural to me

26:17and if you combine those things it’s not surprising that my purpose about how can I help others to grow um how can I help

26:24marketers to grow and the way in which I do that is the whole Market a proposition now I’m sure some of you

26:30listening to that saying well you know you you have your own uh business or brand that you have started and that

26:36makes it easier yes it does make it easier but that’s not to say that you can’t set your own Purpose with your

26:41passions the things that you want to get involved with and help with utilizing your skills and your talents and giving

26:48you something that you feel motivated about to get out of bed for every single

26:53morning um where do goals come from so goals to me come from

26:58that vision board something that you’ve wanted to achieve for your life as a whole they come from doing things that

27:04play to your values sometimes they just come from a bucket list item something you’ve always wanted to achieve um not a

27:11marathon for me I mean I wouldn’t run anywhere unless I was in danger um but I

27:17I’ve done that joke before so Joe’s like yeah I’ve heard you say that before but you know what is on your buet list that

27:23place that you want to experience that thing that you want to achieve that thing that you wanted to do um or just a

27:28feeling from within you know people know people who know me well and know I spend a lot of time in Cornwall and I spent a

27:34lot of time in cornall because I had a moment where I had a feeling that I knew I needed to be there more and so therefore I followed that feeling and

27:41thoughts so how do I make that happen Okay it can happen from any area of your life and so yes I think it’s important

27:47that we talk about career goals and ideal roles which I’ll come on to in a second but also anything that you do um

27:55any goal that you start working towards is going to age of fulfillment so please do make sure that you’re doing this for your whole life as a

28:02whole the next is defining the ideal role now I have a lot of people that come to me and say Abby uh I’m looking

28:09for my next role um and I say what are you looking for and they’ll say I’m looking for a marketing director ahead

28:14of marketing role and I always send them away with these following questions because for me that’s the job title and

28:21I know a lot of us want to feel you’ve that you’ve achieved a certain level in your marketing career and by means

28:28that’s absolutely fine to have that as a goal but I think it’s really important to also think about what that role

28:34includes because we’re looking here to have a role that fulfills us and therefore it needs to fulfill us on many

28:40levels the first one it needs to have personal alignment so it needs to work with your life as a whole and your life

28:47as a whole is is the way in which you work your work style your work patterns

28:53where you work how you work your renumeration all of those things that make sure that it fits for your life as

28:59a whole the next is to have that personal fulfillment so when we are doing some a

29:05role that either plays to our values or we’re working for an organization that plays to our values we’re going to have

29:10also the element of personal fulfillment and then we also need to think about um career goals and role

29:17development we know that we need to do things that play to our strengths the thing that we enjoy because it’s going

29:22to give us the dopamine hits and give us the Fulfillment in the day-to-day role but also think about the things that you

29:28want to also learn what’s the role development what’s the breadcrumbing what are the things that you’ve seen

29:34that you’ve heard that you’ve tried that you experienced that you’ve seen somewhere else in a different part of the business or in other organizations

29:40that you also want to learn okay so we want to have a role that includes the things that we enjoy things that we want

29:47to learn and working for an organization that lines to our values and to our purpose and something that works for our

29:53life as a whole and there are a whole series of questions that allow you to kind of get that real Clarity once again

29:59there’s a workbook on the website that you can go through and ask answer those questions but really encouraging you to

30:05make sure that you are not only just look at the job title but what that role includes because that’s absolutely key

30:11to having that fulfillment number

30:16four take the Reigns on making it happen so we’ve spoke about getting clear

30:22getting clear on where you want to get to for your life as a whole what the goals are that you want to achieve think

30:28thinking about not only that uh personally but also professionally and then really thinking about how you start

30:34making that happen so what do I mean about taking the Reigns for me it’s

30:40about a career that’s happening for you not to you you know you are take you are

30:47in control of where you go next you are being proactive in mapping your journey

30:52you are thinking about what this role currently provides you the opportunity for what you’d like the next role to provide the opportunity for you’re

30:58really mapping those steps I think a lot of us and I’ll put my hand up included you know often may get offered another

31:04role or a role comes to us from a head hunter or something that we’ve seen that we want to apply for and that’s not to

31:10say that that process is wrong but we do want to make sure that we are in control of those moves that we make and and

31:15they’re not just happening to us so in order to do that we need to make sure that we can plan and make that

31:22a reality so we know what our vision is we know what the uro role is what is the

31:28key Milestones to make that a reality is there um a certain project that you

31:33might need to work on is a certain training course that you want to be part of is there exposure to something that

31:38you need to acquire and trying to apply apply some timings behind that you know

31:43a really good example of a marketer that is owning this is the one that is really proactive in closing some of those

31:48knowledge gaps that they don’t have so not close from the knowledge gaps that they have um you know the one that says

31:55oh I’m waiting for when the next training program comes out in my organization versus the one that says

32:00right I don’t know about financial commercial Acumen so I’m going to buy a book join a webinar uh job shadow

32:08somebody in my organization that that is responsible for commercial finance and see how they do it so it’s really about

32:15taking action and being proactive in the things that you do in order to achieve it so and also not just putting those

32:23Milestones about behind when but also the things that you’re going to need to do so as I said there is it projects

32:28that you can be part of are there certain things that you need to gain experience in and it doesn’t always have

32:33to be INR it can be outside the organization um are there asks of help

32:39I’m a massive believer in the ask of help as I said earlier I always believe that what we put into the world you know

32:45is really unique so therefore there’s someone else out there that knows something that you don’t know how can

32:50you ask for help whether that’s from a mentor someone who’s done the thing that you want to achieve but how they got

32:56there what advice they give you whether that’s a teacher who knows how to do the thing that you don’t know how to do yet

33:02that’s going to help you close that Gap whether that’s a coach someone that’s going to give you the questioning to

33:07arrive at the answer yourself or whether that’s an accountability buddy someone that’s going to hold you to account to

33:13make sure that you are making movements and edging closer to those goals now I personally have all of those things at

33:19any one time um so it is about being proactive and asking for someone to Mentor you

33:25find out the gaps that you need look at who can help you close them make sure you’ve got the support in place um and

33:31the accountability buddy thing that I do is you know simply really simple that someone is really clear on my

33:38goals and every Saturday by lunchtime I text them the thing that I have done that week that’s edged me closer to my

33:44goals it just holds me to account it makes sure that I remain focused on the things I get the support that I need and

33:50the motivation I need to keep going um training you know the power of yet so

33:57how do we learn the thing that we need to learn and also by sharing your goals with others you get external commitment

34:04and also support So by sharing the thing that you want to achieve you’re going to be in other people’s Ras they’re going

34:09to say oh have you seen that course oh I was over here at the weekend u i saw this book I think you really love it

34:14that’s something that you want to do isn’t it it’s giving you external commitment holding you to account because every time they see you they’re

34:21going to say how you getting on with X okay and then five um what’s really

34:28important here is that we don’t run our goals full Pelt and the reason is if we

34:33do that we will overwhelm our brains so it’s really important that we take small

34:39incremental daily movements towards our goals one of my favorite quotes is a journey of a th miles starts with a

34:46single step in fact I have it inside a mug that I try and have my morning tea out of every morning it’s like just one

34:52step one step and it it just needs to be simple movements it could be one podcast

34:58you listen to one email that you send one phone call that you make one voice note that you ask one webinar that you

35:05listen to it could be just one small daily movement that’s going to edge you closer to your goals for your life and

35:11your career as a whole the next important thing is that when we start to do things that we’ve

35:17not done before our brains are designed to keep us safe so it’s only natural

35:23that when you start doing something you’ve not done before your brain will heighten it will start to highlight to

35:28you that you maybe are in danger and you will start feel having feelings of anxiety or fear that is absolutely

35:36completely normal okay what we do need to do is feel that fear there’s a lot of people say feel the fear and do it

35:42anyways but at least acknowledging that fear and thinking about what we’re going to do and really embracing the fact that

35:48you are on a journey and embracing the power of yet I don’t know how to do that

35:54thing yet not fix mindset with like I don’t know how to do that that never mind I’m not doing that okay so it

36:00really is important that we Embrace that growth mindset and we work with our brains so

36:06as we start edging outside of our comfort zone things like limiting beliefs or you can’t do that or will

36:12start coming up that’s completely normal okay so for those that have experienced that saying oh well I haven’t done the

36:18thing because limiting beliefs will come up they are there to keep us safe okay limiting beliefs are formed when three

36:25things rep Place someone of Authority says something that evokes a strong emotion in a time that we feel

36:32susceptible so if we in a new role um and someone says that you’re not able to do a certain thing a limiting belief

36:38will be formed so it’s about acknowledging that looking where it came from doing the work to reframe it the

36:45next is when you do start to feel anxious or nervous about the thing that you’re doing like just sit with it sit

36:51with it for a minute okay don’t run from it feel the fear acknowledge it thank

36:56your brain for bringing your attention to it but still take the action okay still take the action and it’s also okay

37:03to talk out loud to your brain and just say thank you uh I know you’re trying to keep me safe but I am actually safe and

37:09I’m going to send that email anyways okay the next is when we’re doing things that are hard work or that create effort

37:15we need to celebrate the wins we need to reward our brain so whether we want to

37:20attach a reward for the the goal or the Milestone that we’re working towards um but we need to do something that says

37:27Thank you very very much for the hard work why because then it will want to do it again okay so really embracing how

37:33our brains work and the next is not just always chasing those goals but time for

37:38reflection Joe and I were talking before uh we jumped on the webinar today around you know I take a quarterly review going

37:44right they’re my goals just as you would in your day-to-day work going so how am I doing against them what’s working

37:50what’s not working stop start continue really having that time for reflection because it’s never the learning it’s the

37:58reflection on the learning and so that we can repeat that or do something differently next

38:04time um I’m going to cut pause in a second for Q&A but just want to say that if you’re going oh that’s a lot that’s a

38:10lot I want to do all those things but where do I start there is lots of support out there for you particular on the website resources from your ideal

38:18role your values um and much much more so please if you want to learn more take

38:23more time to do that please do use those and I’ll just pause there for questions and look at this chat box

38:30now it’s been so phenomenal but so have you Abby uh just absolutely brilliant so

38:37thank you so much for taking us through and I I have a framework brain so there was a moment like about 15 20 minutes in

38:43there where you you started to really connect the the different things that you’ve been through and and my brain

38:49went on fire and I was like oh my God she’s done a fabulous job here so honestly thank you so so much welcome

38:56folks throughout the chat Fe have just been loving it and and relating I think more than anything so

39:02um so thank you um and and thank you everyone as well in the chat for continuing to to support each other it’s

39:09genuinely incredible we’ve got 19 minutes for Q&A now so folks if you see

39:16uh a chat in a question that’s in the Q&A where you’re like H I’d love that answered then give it a thumbs up or if

39:23you don’t see a question you’d love answered then uh then then be sure to uh pop it in the Q&A and I’ll try to make

39:29sure that we prioritize those things um Abby I’m hopefully giving you time here to sort of takeing have a little reflex

39:37the chat feature as well um because honestly as a community you’re just

39:43absolutely phenomenal so thank you all so much let’s um let’s head

39:49into the Q&A and so I’m I’m just going to take them from the top based on how folks have voted and so there’s quite a

39:56wide question here I’d like to contrast it against one of the other questions in the Q&A as well so we do them at the the

40:03same time so the first question comes from Lily who says what are your top tips for someone in their first

40:10marketing role and then I’m going to contrast this against Katherine who says

40:15how do you tackle the problem as being seen as two senior uh so Katherine puts a little bit more meat on the bones and

40:20says I’m currently ahead of marketing deliberately trying to get marketing managers or less senior jobs and being

40:26told on to senior to progress so like you got two Folks at different stages of their career here um but both sort of

40:34seeking a similar Thing by virtue of being on this webinar which is that fulfillment having a great career etc

40:41etc so I think what are your top tips for someone in their first marketing role for me almost like if I look back

40:48over my 25 years the thing that I wish I’d learned more was me um particularly

40:55why we’re talking about personal understanding today so getting really clear on what you know following the breadcrumbs what is it about the role

41:02that you’re currently doing that you really love what are the things that you are doing that you don’t enjoy what are

41:08the things that you want to do more of and being making sure that you’re getting exposure to lots of different aspects that are happening in the

41:13organization so you go I like that I call it breadcrumbing I like that I want to hear more requesting to kind of join

41:19that meeting see what’s going on or may maybe do some personal learning on that thing outside of work um but it really

41:26is about uh breadcrumbing so exposure and bread crumbing getting really clean on the things that you’re enjoying and not just

41:32like I don’t enjoy that it’s why don’t I enjoy that why is that draining me why

41:37is that not enjoyable but what would the thing that would be more enjoyable that I want to include so you start crafting

41:44your L list of strengths and enjoyment back to that kind of Ideal rooll um Bend

41:50diagram that I’ve created that you’re banking your strengths the things that you enjoy and that are giving you dopamine hits the things that you want

41:56to go after but you’re also taking the time to build your personal understanding so you can put your hand

42:01up for the work streams that play to your values or the projects that someone’s working on that not just a

42:06learning opportunity but also a value building opportunity as well so that’s the less

42:12senior the more senior and and as I was reading your post I think what’s quite clear is that you don’t want the senior

42:18role anymore you want to kind of take a step down so you’ve got your personal reasons why you want to do that um I see

42:25many senior marketers wanting to do exactly the same because the higher they get the more time that they spend um in

42:32boardrooms and they are actually working on marketing the thing they came into marketing to do and so I was do uh it

42:41feels like there is a lack of understanding between what it is that you’re trying to do and for them their

42:48perception of why you’re trying to do that so I would say as much transparency as you can about the reasons why you

42:54want to do that what it is that you’re looking for role what you’ve learned having done more senior roles and why

43:00you’re looking for this change whether that’s personally or professionally and really facing into that communication

43:05before kind of even before you P for that role um I think is is really important and I’ve seen a lot of people

43:12actually that have taken that step down or two steps down because it’s not as they’ve gone more Senor it’s not the

43:17thing they enjoy and I think it’s okay to communicate that it’s it’s so true I mean you know we can go really really

43:23deep on this but you know the way that we handle progression in general um is is tricky you know we can all uh

43:31explore these things that we love doing and sometimes it is the doing rather than the managing or whatever there’s there’s interesting

43:37conversations that we had about how we reward people to continue progressing uh without necessarily giving them a

43:44promotion or making them a manager in different ways because we all build so differently um so that feels really

43:50great advice and I love the idea of bread cramming as well Abby um and what I really appreciate is that you did this

43:56as part of the talk as well is you presented like something which on the surface level a lot of people speak

44:01about but you took it one level below and sort of said okay I’ve noticed that thing but why and I think that’s really

44:06crucial and I I really admire that you know just that level of thinking so thank you very much for encouraging

44:12people to think that way I think that’s really really helpful I just add one thing to that as well Joe I think you

44:18know when we have performance reviews or we’re planing for a new job or we be getting feedback from someone in an

44:24organization that we’re working with don’t forget that that feedback is based on their own lived experience you know

44:32we can only I always say we can only help others into the extent in which we know ourselves but they can only lead and give feedback in to the extent in

44:38which that they’ve experienced themselves so almost appreciating that that feedback

44:45their perception of your situation is their perception is not necessarily your reality and maybe there’s a piece of

44:51Education that needs to happen there’re around their assumptions about why you’re doing that thing I’d love that

44:57and does does that relate to the would you say and maybe this is a

45:03completely incorrect thing to say and so you know no is a very good answer as well but there was a lot of chat in the

45:09webinar chat here about people relating to the idea of being people Pleasers and stuff like that and I think based on

45:16what you’ve just said there could be a tendency for folks to kind of receive information from a manager or something like that and because they want to

45:22please they don’t necessarily do that additional layer of thinking whether they like oh wait their context could be different rather than you know like I

45:28would like to please this person so I I don’t know whether there’s a tendency within marketers to be people Pleasers

45:35because our roles are fundamentally about people um but yeah it’s just an

45:40interest I mean I’m I’m actually when we talk about drivers so my personal drivers are hurry up and people please

45:47so I have a harder relate with anyone that people pleases um and I think with any of your drivers you’re right you

45:53know as marketers we are here to identify and satisfy you know the wants and needs of consumers profitably and we

45:58are there to make sure that they are happy and we are meeting their needs um definitely so you potentially have got

46:04maybe marketers maybe more prone to have that people please a driver but I think it’s also really important to do as you

46:11say to go down a level so it’s like so if I am people pleasing and I am saying yes and I’m not saying no and I am

46:18ruminating as I often do about the thing that I said or how someone might be thinking about me it’s like well why

46:24yeah what is the thing that you’re worried that that you will get or that you will lose from that action I think

46:31on to build on to your point about feedback it’s also up to you what you take and what you don’t

46:36take um from feedback and yes we want to make sure that you know potentially a

46:41line manager or someone that is perceived as potentially a decision maker in your future progression or you

46:48know their their opinion is really really important internally that we want to do that thing but that’s still your

46:54choice whether you do it or not and so important so hard to do but if you can

47:00nail it as a skill then it’s it’s absolutely wonderful I fully agree wonderful Abby thank you um let’s take

47:07the next question um yeah who comes from Anonymous in the time that we’ve been chatting there about uh two questions

47:15then another 10 have been added so so we’ve done well um so this one comes

47:20from Anonymous and I’m going to make an assumption here which is there’s been a series of anonymous questions coming in around around the same time so really

47:27like to help this person because I suspect so um the anonymous attendee

47:32says I don’t know what job I’m looking for I’m currently in a marketing coordinated role at a small business and

47:38constantly feel like I want something more but how do I know what I want I can’t think of any passions or things

47:44that I would love to do and I guess while you’re thinking there because it’s

47:50always hard to have questions just thrown at you like I can relate that experience in that sometimes it’s quite

47:55hard to know a world you don’t know exists you know and so if you don’t know what the opportunities are out there or

48:01what passions you can follow etc etc coming up with a vision for example can be quite difficult so for for someone in

48:09this situation who is just it feels like is stuck a little bit

48:14um how would you start to approach these kind of conversations at the very least so I would start to think about what are

48:20all the key elements that make up a marketer marketer’s role technically and

48:26start think about which of those things am I doing do I enjoy or do I need to understand more about so if we talk

48:33about uh the ability to set vision and right strategy if we talk about

48:38activating in the in the year if we talk about Insight

48:43or kpis Effectiveness Roi like we literally go through all the core skills

48:49then starting to think about what am I doing that plays to those what have I enjoyed what have I not enjoyed what do

48:55I need to to learn Le more about and doing an audit against that would be a really great place to start because to a

49:01point we don’t know what we don’t know and sometimes by um thinking about all

49:08the other elements as well there might be a breadcrumb that we want to follow or something that we want to kind of Explore More um and people often say I

49:15mean those technical skills are outlined the core technical skills I would say are outlined in my book um and I’ll also

49:23on another resource on the website but I would also um also take the time to think about not

49:31only what you have and haven’t done but also other roles sometimes looking at a job description or or shadowing somebody

49:38else for the day can give you exposure to something that they’re doing that you go oh quite like the look of that um and

49:44I know for me personally you know I absolutely am a strategy geek like sorry

49:49not sorry but that only happened because I was working in activation and then I was like that’s quite interesting oh I

49:56quite the structure a bit like you Joe and then I was like oh I’m going to buy a book on strategy and then I fell in

50:01love nice that was five steps before I got there so it’s also okay to

50:07be accept the unknowing at the moment and just keep listening and and and

50:12listening to yourself I love that thank you and you know that last sentence I guess relates

50:18to curiosity to a certain extent although that can sometimes be you know it’s a really wonderful trait but also

50:25one that people say be curious and and like you know when you’re in a a not a strong Place sometimes that can be quite

50:31tricky so you know exactly to your point you know just allowing yourself allowing yourself the process and and stuff like

50:38that you know is so important so thank you Abby for speaking through that I just also wanted to highlight when you

50:45mentioned there about looking at other job descriptions um there was an exercise which I think is a a build on

50:50from what you were speaking about there but Helen Tupper spoke about this where you’d go through five or six or seven or

50:57eight job descriptions and you just put a green tick next to things that peaked your curiosity uh and that is um you know a

51:05way of structuring the exercise I guess um that you suggested but um Helen has

51:10also built on in a different way which hopefully be useful um let’s take the next one from

51:16Sarah um so you mentioned in the talk and I wrote it down I wrote it down on my phone so if I was looking down at any

51:22point it because I was taking notes I promise and and you used the term

51:27um a be strong driver and I found that really fascinating and I don’t think

51:32I’ve heard many people use that phrase before and so Sarah in the in the Q&A

51:38here uh has asked how would you advise someone who isn’t very good at asking for help that you can see on the way to

51:44potential burnout to help stop that potential burnout so in fact Sarah’s done a really generous thing here which

51:50is uh seeing that in someone else um but I’d also like to add on the additional

51:55bit about no it in yourself and and sort of that be strong driver because I think uh that’s a really important part that

52:02we potentially didn’t go particularly deep into in in in in the presentation

52:07yeah so the be strong driver is is exactly that the the want to not show

52:12how you’re truly feeling and not ask for help um and you know from a gender

52:17perspective is actually um quite common in in males um because of historically

52:23like you know you’d fall over and they’d say oh you’re fine get up and it’s like well no I’m expressing my emotion and

52:28that was kind of so it’s quite a common thing to over index um historically obviously gender roles are changing but

52:36um in males and but also across all genders and for someone that’s not um in

52:42fact I’ve been coaching someone recently who who has a real difficulty with asking for help and sometimes it’s like

52:49the the process historically has been they’ve asked for help and something has

52:55happened and so it’s been a negative experience or they’ve been rejected or the help didn’t help them whatever that

53:01may be and so actually starting with small steps of asking for small amounts of help to almost start saying well that

53:07was a positive experience see and then doing again so you know a big ask for help would be in this person that’s

53:14heading for Burnout it’s like help I feel overwhelmed um I don’t know I’ve got too much on my plate I feel

53:19prolonged stressed I don’t want to tell you that I’m overwhelmed for whatever reason that may be it’s like so what’s

53:25the small thing that you could do to help them whether that’s um identifying workload they allowing to take something

53:33off them um just small offers of help as well as allowing them to ask for small

53:39bits of help um and I always think with with burnout if you’re noticing it in someone else is doing what I call the

53:46white sheet sheet of paper exercise in fact I’ve got a really a book that I buy from um from tiger with the big sheets

53:53in it and I just white sheet of paper and just maybe sitting offering them going like what are all the things that are going on at the moment and let them

54:01let them share think about what’s a priority what’s not a priority potentially what you could do to help them either reprioritize or take

54:08something off them could be that small bit of help for them to see that it’s okay love that that’s so helpful thank

54:14you so much Abby great answer um I uh haven’t read Charlotte’s comment in the

54:20chat here but it looks like it’ll be useful as well so Point people to that but thank you Abby that’s L useful and

54:28Sarah in the chat says thank you so much for two exclamation marks so I think that’s been really helpful as well

54:34thumbs up so um let’s take the next one from

54:39Katherine so Katherine is smashing the questions because those are the top two questions that are left as well as having one answered already so um

54:46hopefully this is a message of Hope really I hope we come to this conclusion so me uh Katherine says my experience

54:52makes me think that the most well-paid ambitious roles don’t align with my personal value are people out there who believe you can

54:58actually be commercially successful and a good person uh I am losing faith um so

55:05a little bit of a statement as much as anything else but um I believe that be a

55:11good person successful um like do you um I think you can be a commercial

55:18person and be successful yes um I also would say what’s their definition of

55:23success so commercially successful I.E they’re able to grow their

55:30brand um are able to map the profit and loss account able to think about how

55:35they affect each line on that um does it mean that they are necessarily only

55:45driven by the numbers or doing that thing that feels a bit icky um would be

55:50my first kind of feedback and and I also say um I personally love the numbers

55:57um and not necessarily directly linked it sounds like maybe what you’re experiencing is a very sales driven um

56:05individual and therefore someone who’s potentially paid and renumerated for that and your perception around that is

56:11that those people that do that do that thing I don’t think so like Joe that

56:17that is a generic thing but I do I would always say what is your definition of success because um money is only one

56:26aspect and having roles with commercial SE success is only another way love it

56:32thank you it’s really helpful um I think we’re coming towards the end so this is probably the last one Abby but um just

56:39to say a big thank you again um for for the whole hour because you’ve been so

56:44brilliant um but this last one comes in uh and it says any advice for when

56:50you’re completely overwhelmed by life and work and you know you need to make changes to put that uh just feels like

56:56one more thing to do so does it feel I’m going to I’m going to reflect

57:04back on some of the things that you’ve said today um for me based on your words it feels like it’s been one small step

57:11um but would you suggest anything else I would so in addition to that white sheet

57:16of paper exercise which I always do when I’m overwhelmed and the reason I bought the tiger book is so I can map the trend

57:22of all the things that seem to keep making me overwhelmed to create

57:28certainty so we as humans want a combination of certainty and uncertainty

57:33so in times of feeling overwhelmed or where things feel like slightly out control or there’s lots of stress being

57:38thrown at us that’s out of our control creating some sort of certainty for your

57:43brain is really important so if I give you an example I spend time on my own

57:49every single day at half six that’s the time that I can tag team um here with

57:55childcare but I sit on my own for half an hour and it’s like a ritual it’s in

58:00my bedroom it’s with a candle on it’s with a cup of tea now what that’s doing is telling my brain that there is

58:06something in my life that is grounding that is core that is certain so what I would always say is create your

58:11certainty create your moment create your small thing in time and by doing that consistently you’ll start to calm down a

58:18little bit your brain will start to feel less like oh my God what’s going on um and then hopefully you’ll have more

58:23energy to start doing those little small movements nice love that so much so so helpful um wonderful uh thank you so

58:32much Abby and thank you everyone as well for your brilliant questions your brilliant chat uh your support for one

58:39another um all of it is just phenomenal and and um what a brilliant brilliant

58:44way to start of 2025 so thank you so much Abby welcome and uh yeah a great way to

58:51start I mean we’re back this time next week uh with another fabulous session um

58:57this week and you know it’ just be absolutely brilliant to see you um next week’s session is all about uh slowing

59:05down uh with Emma Harris uh and so I know you know Emma as well Abby and um

59:11it will be a a swear wonderful session if that sounds like you’re kind

59:17of bag then uh it’ll be great to see you um but in the meantime a big big thank you to Abby big big thank you to all of

59:24you and a big big thank you to all of our sponsors for enabling us to bring these sessions to you uh hope to see you

59:31next week and in the meantime uh we will catch you very very soon take care

59:36everyone cheers Abby thank you