Marketing jobs in the COVID environment – Dominic Phipps & Rob Markwell

Author: Joe Glover
Marketing jobs during and after COVID

How do you get a new marketing job during COVID?

These past 10 weeks or so have hit us all like a cannonball, and while there have been many who suffer as a result, in the business context, the jobs market has been one of those to be hit hardest. Government figures yesterday estimated a quarter of the workforce is now on furlough, but there is also a vast amount who are now unemployed, or were looking before and now left reeling.

In this session, Dominic and Rob cover:

  • The current context of the jobs environment
  • The employee market as it stands today
  • The likely impact of the recession on jobs in the immediate future
  • What you should be looking for in a role
  • Do recruiters automate CV reviewing?
  • The employer market – what has happened with COVID
  • Whether you can trust the job boards
  • How to stand out when going through the paper sift
  • And much more!


About Dominic Phipps and Chris Smith:

Dominic is the MD of Brand Recruitment. Rob, the MD of Pitch Consultants. Recruiters get a hard wrap out there in the world, but we’re lucky that these two are a couple of the good guys. Whether it’s giving back to The Marketing Meetup community, or the wider community, these two have made a conscious choice to do business in the right way and look to help people in the process. we’re really grateful for them both being here.

We’ve spent a good amount of time with both chaps over the years and think of them as nothing but outstanding human beings. We love their company, the fact they come to the marketing meetup community with ideas all the time, and their giving natures.

We need to thank the sponsors too, all of whom have been unbelievable. They’ve really kept this show on the road, and while we’ve been so blessed to have received so many messages from the community, these folks all deserve a huge amount of credit. Thank you to Pitch, ContentCal, Fiverr, Redgate, Cambridge Marketing College, Leadoo, Brand, Further, Third Light, Bravo and Human.  


Joe Glover 0:06
Six minutes late. Well done. Well done, Joe. Joe has just done a whole introduction

And I didn’t press the broadcast button. Wonderful. So we’ve now got a number of people joining us over the over the internet, the magic of the internet. What a wonderful thing is, that is the most special thing I’ve done for quite a while. So apologies, everyone for being so late. That is completely my fault. But now we can see who got so many people. For those people who are just joining us then. Yeah, I’ve managed to not press the broadcast button. So Rob and Dom have both sat here listening to my introduction, and I’m now going to do it again.

So welcome everyone to the webinar.

The first on a Thursday. Say what? Magic despite the outrageousness of doing a webinar on a Thursday, let me welcome Dominic and Rob,

to our webinar today. This will be the second time by the way that the folks on YouTube will be able to have seen this introduction, but also the first for anyone on zoom. Dominic is the MD of brand recruitment, Rob, the MD pitch consultants. This is the second time I’ve made this joke but recruiters aren’t all evil. In fact, there’s a lot of good ones out there and and we’re lucky to have to have the absolute best. In front of us, we have two really good guys. Whether it’s giving back to the marketing community or the wider community. These two have made a conscious choice to do business in the right way and look to help people in the process. I’m really grateful for them both being here today. This is so funny. I’m so

Unknown Speaker 2:07
yeah, got it.

Rob Markwell 2:09
You got it, you got it.

Joe Glover 2:11
On a personal level, I’ve spent a good amount of time with both these chaps and let me just say that nothing outstanding human beings. I really love the company of both of them and the fact that they’ve come to the market to me of community over the years, with so many ideas, and they’re giving nature let me just say

Dominic Phipps 2:31
they are

Joe Glover 2:33
really appreciated, truly appreciated. And why is this session important? Well, I feel like in one way, it’s kind of obvious, but on another, it does need to be stated that these past 10 weeks have hit so like an absolute cannibal. And while we’re all going to be suffering in different ways, we’re going to be having Different ramifications from it all. In a business context, the jobs market has been one that’s been hit the hardest. Government figures yesterday estimated a quarter of the workforce now on furlough. But now, there’s also a vast amount of people who were unemployed before, who are now reeling because that market is only got harder. While this is really, really, really hard, today’s session will be at least useful for those of you joining because it’ll let you know what’s going on. But also hopefully what you can do to stand out in this situation to this session will be split into two. When in fact, it will be split into three because the first was the pre introduction, and now you get the actual introduction. But after this, you’ll get 30 minutes presentation. 30 minutes q&a, roughly speaking for both and all I can say is get your questions in now using the q&a feature that’s found in your zoom window. Wiggle your mouse Get those questions in and also use the thumbs up feature. We I will literally be asking questions from the top wasn’t when we have them let me thank all the sponsors once again, all of them all of whom have just been ridiculously unbelievable since the beginning of this journey you’ve had them mentioned in the email you’ve got this morning you’ll have the mentioned again afterwards. My one ask for each of these companies is that you just take 10 seconds if you get any value from anything the marketing meetup does just to thank the sponsors each one of them have their LinkedIn profiles linked that literally just need to click in say thank you and it makes a world of difference. I won’t go into depth here but thank you to pitch content cow five a reggae Cambridge marketing college leader brand further third light Bravo and human. Yeah, please just do think those guys so for the second time today dominate bro Welcome to You guys, and thank you for being

Dominic Phipps 5:03
such a

it’s a really good intro. We got two intros so

good. We get multiple intro. So, um, my name is Dominic, as covered by Joe very briefly there. So I’m a massive fan of the marketing agency within the marketing meetup. You guys are awesome. We are we have been and we are still here to support you guys in any which way that we possibly can. So

I’ve been in recruiting for the last 10 years and on that slide where it says insert generic blurb that was meant to be there. That’s my my four attempts at humour. So you say 10 years in marketing recruitment, and I had a PR team 25 around recruiting so we’re based out of offices in Cambridge and Amazon. We cover the central and eastern regions. So that’s the Leicestershire down to Oxfordshire posture to asset assets. To Norwich or Norfolk even and basically everywhere in between so um, so that’s my my intro Gambit over to Europe.

Rob Markwell 6:10
And cute on it. Let me just try and switch the slides because I’m in an annoying Mackey’s

Unknown Speaker 6:18

Rob Markwell 6:19
Well, hello

my name is Rob as Joe Kahn introduced. I’ve been founder of pitch I’ve been working this industry for the best part of 18 years seen it do few ups and downs recession in their change your skill set within the marketing industry, and trends within the recruitment and recruitment process. Um, probably like most of you, I’m sat at home in a spare room trying to figure out this world while dealing with a couple of kids and clean the two year old who wants to be on every zoom call, which is what I’m doing this from the office today to save you all from her a little bit about pitch, we were set up in 2007. And really with not with a vision of trying to do recruitment the right way, wanting to contribute and be a part of the industry and add value. And from the day we met the guys, Joe and James from the marketing meetup it just clicked straight away their values and what they’re about, just makes it a absolute pleasure to come to be on the journey and be here. And I think, obviously, we know we’re here to talk about the new normal. What I’m not obviously here to tell you something that you know, you already know. Yes, it is tough. The world has gone a little bit mad, and we have tough times ahead. And normally here to sugarcoat it. You know, furlough is a fantastic thing that a lot of people are talking about. And Joe mentioned it again that the staggering numbers and the costs associated with furlough. It is keeping the recruitment industry or that the employment in a sort of artificial state. So, you know, as this sort of grows, I guess we will see how how that new normal looks like and what effects that’s going to have on the, on the recruitment, industry and employment. But recessions do follow certain trends. And that’s what Dominic is going to try and enlighten you from our experience back in those days. But But this isn’t any older session, this isn’t just about, you know, banks getting it wrong. This is about how we move how we, our social interactions working from home. The lockdown, I think, is at a much more profound effect on recruitment than the actual economic sort of impact to follow. So we’re here really to try and give you a guess some, some tips and takeaways. How what things you can do today to really equips you for for for the new normal and for tomorrow, either from the employee perspective, job seeker. perspective estimates going to cover around looking at about from a business employee perspective or management perspective. And I think it’s interesting to see both sides. I guess my point of view it this is either really, really scary place to go into, or actually, you know, if you think about it can be an opportunity for positive change, an opportunity to be creative, and actually to find excitement on it. Whilst I know we’ve got some stuff to some tough time ahead. I think we can learn a lot from this. So that’s kind of trying to, yeah, give you some takeaways that actually can be positively use as we as we go on.

So I’ll hand you back over to Dominic, I’m in charge of your slides tonic, I’ll be your only assistant throughout

Dominic Phipps 9:49
the second is very best. So

what we’re what we’re firstly going to do is basically just done. Let’s just create a bit of context. So let’s Look at the joyous subjects of recession, you know, because we are now in a recession, you know, so and we’ve got doughnuts there on the slides is nothing more happy than doughnuts. So let’s start to work our way through it. So, and if you do a little click for me, well, that’s okay. So first of all, let’s just look at it in a brief kind of one stop shopping centre. And what we’re looking at. This is industry wide, so we’re looking at less buying. Typically, in most areas of the market, both b2b and b2c, less overall growth, more consolidation, lower disposable budgets, rightly or wrongly, which I will be covering off very shortly. And more measurable business tactics used for budget justification as well. So let’s just bundle those three together and quickly and just put it in quite a more of a more personalised kind of view so we can all get our head around it. So let’s, let’s, let’s give examples within our personal life. So Scylla Say you have your household, you you obviously have, you have less, potentially less income coming in, let’s just say that in terms of so you’ve got less sales, you’ve got less income coming in, you’re not going to spend as much, but you’re going to be a little bit more concerned about your potential growth or you know, in which direction the business is potentially going to go in the future. So you’re going to, you know, you’re going to be working towards further consolidation. There’s gonna be lower disposable budgets, by no means am I this, am I describing marketing budgets as disposable budgets there guys. So just just to clarify, and but rightly or wrongly, and and, you know, businesses will need to start looking at their spending element to make sure that especially when we go down to the into the recruitment area, and the recruitment level of of business, in a great in the general term, that is going to be self sustaining, you know, you’re going to be Able to onboard these people and have enough work out there for them to be carrying out what they need to be doing so, and business decision makers, they’re obviously going to be a lot more cautious. So they’re gonna be assessing their actions, much more thorough consideration, chances are they, they will probably be looking at things in much, much more depth, but that will range anything from buying decisions white your way through to employment decisions as well. So, I mean, without turning it into some form of GCSE business studies course, you know, that we’re all on those are the that’s the context in which we are, you know, in currently in terms of just general visits, but in terms of recruitment, specifically, and obviously, within recession periods, Rob knows this, I know this brutal before. And so, you know, back in 2008 2009 2010, we were looking at periods of much slower growth and the what that meant was For those, you know, anywhere between a year to two years, it really meant that businesses were a little bit more apprehensive when coming up with generating big ideas about recruitment campaigns. And I suppose the direction of the business has changed slightly, much more about seeing what they already have. And then how, sorry, what they already have. And then complementing those skills with further people who they bring on board through their own recruitment practices. So there’s typically less role vacancies with more potential candidates. It’s common sense with regards to that, you know, we can look at employment stats and that sort of things. Rob, do you mind if you just give us a quick clip, and this is actually opposite the opposite to what we’ve experienced over the years, and within marketing recruitment. So you know, for the last, you know, dare I say three or four years and Rob will probably agree with us, and it’s been a really candid lead mark. You know, you have multiple candidates with multiple job offers on the table, right up until recently. So this is a snapshot. So obviously reliable sources here. So in the Office of National Statistics, and also as soon as you enter a big JOB, JOB pool, and they give us some really, really good insight. So online job vacancies fell by more than half in the two months to the start of May. And they can see falling from 120,000 at the beginning of April to 373 days. So what that’s telling us in general, these aren’t marketing staff, by the ways, in general, this is telling us that the market is is isn’t growing in terms of, you know, new additional people coming on board within these businesses, there is still there’s still people being employed, but at a much lower rate. So,

another quick point.

However, this is where the silver lining should then come in. So all of the data which

Has which has come from analysing recession, marketing practice, all of it has, and has shown that actually businesses who, who still invest in marketing they, at the end of it, they come out on top. So I think we can send out these links and send out these bits and pieces. So you’ve got it all. found a really nice data snapshot, which basically puts it all very much in layman’s terms and this backdated right away from the first sorry, from the Second World War all the way through to the current date. So we’ll get those out to everybody. All right, so and next one can come up.

within the job market, you know, your online profile and your external facing profile probably needs to be as strong as possible. And, and to stand out for the right reasons. So, I mean, standing out, that’s not just making noise, that’s probably the best way to put it. You know, it’s, it is and it’s, it’s working with people, it’s helping people it’s generating, you know, your own. There I say your own personal brand in some ways as well.

And there’s lots to be said for,

you know, technology and that side of things. Obviously, the last of face to face meetings currently happening at the moment. And I know, I was chosen an amazing job turning that marketing meetup into the webinars today, rather than face to face meetings and everything like that, like that, but it will get to the point where face to face meetings will come back again. And obviously, we need to prep ourselves for that. But at the same time, we also need to be prepping ourselves in the short term for a prolonged period of, you know, being reliant on technology. So I have to admit, I hate technology always have. I’m not gonna say always well, because I’m coming around to it has lots of really, really good platforms coming out about the moment but I’m creating that comfort zone between yourself, your personal and your personal space. And then the technology you use, it’s a really, really good way of making sure that you are able to put yourself out there that’s probably the best way to put it, if that makes any sense. So and business requirements are going to be changing. Candidates are going to be positioned in different ways as well. So don’t be. And don’t be too surprised if it adds a little bit more down the technology side of things over the course of the next six months to a year, because it probably will. So a little click right, so there’s nothing that makes people smile, or then baby pictures. So, um, today, I mean, there’s, there’s gonna be lots of challenging personal things, which people have to work their way through it. Right. So that’s my eight month daughter Daffy. And she’s she’s donning a marketing meetup, one z. One z has baby Rosemary’s Baby. And so at least we know that Joe is working in the background making children’s referral as well. So it’s a

Joe Glover 18:52
diversification matter.

Dominic Phipps 18:54
Exactly, exactly. So um, so let’s just look at, you know, sort of growth, personal growth. So that We are weighing up what may now be important. So in saying, and you guys are probably expecting me to kind of edge more towards Well, you know, family might be the orientation. Now, it may be I mean, look, I’ll use my own personal situation I have used the last 10 weeks and, and it may shock you guys to know that actually I’ve realised I really need the office environment, I need to be speaking to people I need, I need that to, you know, to have a clear working head if that makes any sense. And you know, that that family element doesn’t meet so many personalities and parts to your career, but then also job search as well. The second thing that you’ll need to weigh up to make sure that your career moving forward is fitting into what you see the future as well. And as citizens change the circumstances for so many people, you know, some of the policies to some of the negative and then there’s a poll question as well with regards to working from home and work life balance and things like that. And this isn’t a family setup a family therapy session, by all means, but it what it is, is, I think what we do need to do is really look at ourselves in terms of our job search in terms of what really makes us happy. And because once you start to find that, that will dictate which way your job search will go, and the criteria in which you start searching. So, and the roles which might suit you best, as well. So, again, just looking at roles in a little bit more depth, let’s start thinking about addressing some of those challenges, which the companies are going to be facing was going to cover those, but let’s just look at those, you know, challenges surrounding lower budgets, you know, budget allocation to different business areas and things like that. So, I think and anything which you can do to and to identify Find roles which suit your skill set. But then you can also demonstrate that you can excel within that field. That is where you need to position yourself. So lots of figures, lots of measurement base, anything to do with ROI, that really make it plain clear and obvious to potential clients or internal recruiters that you have done this before, potentially in challenging circumstances, under tight budget restrictions, and you can do it with a return on investment. And it’s it’s, it’s, it’s as simple as that. I mean, it’s a little bit like a marketing, whichever he puts out anyway, identify the need and target that yeah, if you’re targeting it, at least it’s going to resonate more so and link to that critique your own skillset as well. So really play on your strengths. And this could be how you position yourself, you know, in online forums, for instance, as well you know, if there is if there is a discussion, really think about And you know how we can interact with that discussion to the best of your ability, and that the Asterix part at the bottom, it’s okay to admit that you’re not good at everything. You know, being a jack of all trades is fantastic. But as long as there are certain areas of passion, which you can then transfer and really push on, if that makes any sense, because the problem that we might have, if you’re a jack of trades with everything, you will be going up against certain people who will specialise in certain areas within marketing and and it will become apparent to the client or the business that they need certain skills and skill set to be covered off. So just really, really focusing on those if you can, so quick. And the reason why I put this a little bit in it’s really just about not undervaluing your undervaluing your skill set in your experience. This isn’t a situation of complete business reset, don’t consider Your job search now as something as if you’re going in at the very bottom, and you’re not starting again. And so many people honestly, I’ve spoken to so many people who and they’re almost considering it as you know, having to take two or three steps down the ladder to be able to start working again, or, you know, when you’re considering it or being in a position where you are considering something considerably less than your experience level. You don’t need to do that. But you just need to be a little bit more realistic, potentially, in terms of the context of both of your business, and then also the potential candidates you might be up against. For instance, if you’re a marketing director, you’re applying for a marketing executive position. Really just think about that dynamic. If you were six months ago, still in your marketing director role, would you then also take on another marketing director in the marketing executive, possibly not. Likewise, it works the other way.

Admittedly, the sky’s the limit with some of the you know the jobs or the Sunday night, so don’t Be too scared to try and you know, push the boundaries a little bit as well. There’s lots of doom and gloom, but the job search really doesn’t have to be one. That makes sense. So click rock and the action plan so this is on the candidate side. So what we need to start doing is looking at areas of development. So skill set areas of development, any free courses, digital courses, community share courses, to develop any skills and definitely focusing on digital and social media that’s gone through the roof. Some of our biggest clients are currently doing a hell of a lot of investment within social media and agency work also. So while agency budgets will have been slashed, when when the announcement of COVID was around, and if you are working in house at the moment that you can consider agency positions, and you haven’t considered that before Well, look at that. In terms of a skill set, that’s a skill set thing, not an experience thing. So, again, it’s just it’s just about seeing how your skill set Can, can evolve and adapt. And if you’ve got fantastic, you know, personal skills, you know, you love managing multiple projects, actually agency life could could really, really suit you. And we might find that budgets for agencies recover quicker than budgets in house position, as it stands alone, just because it’s reactive, it’s less committal, again, just looking at, you know, addressing those concerns. Before video calls, and practice your video calls, definitely, definitely practice video calls. There’s there’s a few recruitment platforms, which have been developed where and they are two way videos. And these platforms allow that video conversations to be recorded. So it’s, it’s, it’s a bit more high pressure. It’s a little bit more pressure than just having a regular conversation. So just get used to video, it’s definitely going to stick around. And there’s going to be lots of as mentioned, lots of new tech coming out as well. So CVM personal online profile and hoping that we’re going to cover a lot of this in the q&a as well. But your CV is your own piece of work. Don’t you know? What’s that saying? opinions are like assholes. Everybody’s got one, you know. So just just really stick to your own guns with regards to see that if you think your CV looks great as a two page CV, perfect. If you think you’ll see the warrants 3434 or five pages, that’s fine as well. Just again, just put it into context in terms of the amount of your experience if you do have, but just make it punchy, make it relevant. There was a horrific stat that came out two years ago that the average hiring manager only spent anywhere between eight and 13 seconds on A CV before judging, it does need to be punchy, it needs to have figures in there. And you also need to make sure that your first two roles are your most pronounced, ideally with some form of intro. So just little snippets like that, and your online profile, also LinkedIn, just make sure your LinkedIn platform is completely up to date, up to date, and picture. And you also want some form of bio in there. Think of yourself as a product, that’s the best way to you know the best way to protect yourself as a product as a buyer of your product. Would you buy yourself you know, so really look at having looked at your LinkedIn profile are the telltale signs there that you have been part of a business which has grown or and or Can you demonstrate in some way on your LinkedIn some of your achievements, that’s definitely something to go with as well. And for referrals, ask for recommendations. If you’ve worked with people for a long period of time, ask for those recommendations because it looks fantastic when you go through on a profile, it really does. So and we’ve done these groups before, and we are working our way through these sessions as well, both myself, Ralph and our respective teams. And we’re going to be getting another link to see these sessions via marketing mix up as well. So people can have tailored CV sessions with us and our businesses, just to make sure that you are tailoring your CV in a way that is most productive to be out there in the public domain. So and ensure your own job search will be it’s a personal endeavour and it’s what you put into it. And a lot of people say, treat it as a full time job. I wouldn’t If I were you don’t treat your your job search as a full time job because it at times it can be pretty soul destroying and it’s really important to be

in a position of positive And really looking and targeting things, which would you’re really looking for rather than having a scattergun approach that would be that would be my advice as well. So and final quick then as well. So this is a personal quote, and yes, I am going to use my own quote, each day is another occasion when we can have a positive impact on ourselves and others around us. Positive positivity came from experts. So yeah, I think with that there’s there’s a lot of things to feel a bit you know, quite down about as it stands at the moment. Very honestly, your job search doesn’t need to be one of those. And it’s something which it will come there will be progress there, but it’s just about focusing your efforts in the right areas. So that leads on to the employer section. Now this is more on a manual sighs so Ross will be handling this one. And that’s not

me guys. I’m trying to

do sharing

Rob Markwell 30:19
I’m struggling with.

Joe Glover 30:22
So that CJ is one of the joyful tech foibles I thought that was really excellent dominate. Well, while we’ve whipped figure out the tech, maybe we take the first question, which is rise to the top. And before we get to Rob’s part, which is do you think candidates who are currently furloughed will be seen negatively compared to those who have been kept in

Dominic Phipps 30:46
work? And absolutely not? No. And, and I’m gonna link this to redundancy as well. It’s the same. It’s very, very different when we go into a recession situation So and candidates who have been made redundant candidates who are also furloughed, and that’s a circumstance which many people have found themselves in, because it’s something completely out of their control. So don’t try not to look into that too much because employers and and potential clients, they will be thinking about that in exactly the same way. Chances are, they probably will have had to refer like people themselves. So um, so yeah, hopefully, that helps with that.

Joe Glover 31:32
We can switch over to your up, we can see your screen and get out

Rob Markwell 31:35
the tech. Tech. Thanks, Dominic. Now, I agree with everything you just shared that, excuse me, you’re trying to the same thing from an employer’s perspective, even if you’re not an employer, or not sort of a team manager. Hopefully this can also kind of see where what we’re seeing from the clients perspective as well as we try and marry things up. From an employer challenges. These are the key things that I want to

Cover, explain briefly what they are. So obviously this is affecting everybody work at home, you know family done mimics our children’s education. And so looking at how that transpires into to the working world depending on kind of how you see the working world and the culture and communication in businesses, how you recruit as a business during during a lockdown and coming out of that lockdown should tie in to some of the things that obviously Dominic’s covered from a jobseekers perspective and favouring spreadsheets over people and probably leaps in quite nicely to the question you just answered. And so this whole obviously, we’re in this together, which feels like a good vibe question. statement because we kind of are, but are we? And the way I see it from from a kind of work perspective, you’ve got broadly five groups of people, we have those who’ve been on furlough those who’ve were a nine to five

Office person maybe like Dominic is now craving that that environment and is working from home. Those who’ve worked isn’t as normal. And I know, outside of our industry, we have those frontline key workers. But even in our own industry, there’s some people who have still come to work and have lived maybe the level of anxiety and stress and doing that commute through a time where we’re told that, you know, that puts us at our risk. The heads of the businesses, departments, those trying to navigate and survive and figure a way of trading outside of this. And, and the forgotten. We are talking about those people who didn’t have a job, they can’t they weren’t caught by furlough. They had their job offers pulled at 5pm the day before they started because we saw that sole traders freelancers and contractors were absolute bloodline of this industry. And we must obviously think about those guys that we We rely on in our businesses when there’s a big project who have really struggled through this.

Dominic Phipps 34:05
And so for me

Rob Markwell 34:09
how they all see the world is slightly different. So we’re 10 weeks, 11 weeks in now.

Where does that leave us? What is everyone thinking? And we think the first thing that companies are really going to have to think about is sewing back that culture, getting teams back together, getting productivity, going again. And we saw growing divide from the calls that we’ve had, I’m sure Dominic’s had a Kansan clients, and we saw a real real issue starting to rise. So we actually ran a survey a couple of weeks ago, we asked furloughed candidates of ours, people still working and our clients just, you know, what are they thinking? what’s on their mind? What’s the pain and pressure points right now? We had actually a fantastic response. So this is a few bits I’ll quickly pick out just to get us all thinking about these. The first thing we asked is is business owners are they Worried about impacting culture in this 50% said, this is a concern. We’re really concerned that this is going to, you know, damage our culture. And that’s the people who are honest with with with saying, well, that’s that’s a staggering amount. But also what I thought was a very interesting fact is when we ask companies, how do you think your team your employees are faring towards their commitment to the business. And we have 78% say that they are starting to see a two tier workforce, those who have risen to the challenge, they’ve kept engaged with a brand, they’re fighting for the business that checking out things are going and those who have just sort of distanced a little bit. So that’s quite a staggering number at a time where businesses are looking at their work, who is going to fight us out of this who are going to be on our side, who’s the ating if we flip the script for a minute, and we look at it from the employees perspective,

Unknown Speaker 36:00
This is

Rob Markwell 36:00
people who are not looking for a job before hunky dory happy as Larry. And now are thinking, Well, after this is sort of coming back to some sort of normal, would you look for a job? And you can see at the bottom there 60% of those furloughed are saying, I’m probably going to look for a job. And I do think, you know, there is that perhaps feel of what I was furloughed on, indispensable, or maybe not as important and I’ve lost that engagement with the business. Now, that isn’t a Dominic said, always true. You know, realistically through this, you have to make the decisions to control costs and furlough is a great way to doing that doesn’t mean that those on furlough are higher risk of losing their job. But what it does mean looking at this is people in that situation do feel really weird. And job security, again, at the top furlough feeling really nervous about job security moving forward. And if Joe says that that’s a quarter of the workforce. That’s a massive

Where we going on from from those on a on a furlough perspective.

So I think there’s, for me, that’s, you know, that’s a, that’s a big challenge to, to consider. And before we go into how to recruit, you got to sort of think about what we’re 10 weeks in. And if your company has values around, we are family feel, you know, with a cafeteria, the teamwork, etc, and you furloughed, a big part of your workforce via email and you haven’t gotten in touch with them. And you want to turn the tap on in a few weeks. You know, unfortunately, the moment this we’re in this together, employees are going along with it, because they’re worried they’re scared, and they’ll play along with sort of smiling along, but you’re going to find a real resentment, and this is going to catch businesses down the line.

and I’ve come back onto a few more of these points on my last point to the end there abouts of spreadsheets over people are quickly going on to actually recruiting now in lockdown at what does that look like? Because, yes, the market is contracted, but some are still recruiting.

And I’m thinking on a recruiting perspective, I think Dominic would probably agree with me. We’ve been telling clients for quite a few years now. Look, got this great guy is an hour and a half away from the office so it doesn’t mind doing that twice a week. But if you could work from home the other three, you know, he’d be up for that. Or you know that person who’s relocating from London to Manchester. It’s a pain in the bum to come to that first stage, you can do over Skype, see if there’s a meet and greet chemistry and then second stage to the trip. 85% of our clients know me interviews face to face nine to five in the office five days a week, please. Let’s expect that is going to change dramatically. I think that’s, you know, stating the obvious, really, especially in the next six to 12 months. So using tech is going to be a big part of how you interview. So as a company, and as an interviewer, you need to think about that too. You also need to think about that person who’s great nine to five in office environment, how would they fare with a three days working from home? That’s not going to be for everybody can’t just give someone a laptop and be at home and expect them to be able to cope with that. So actually, you need special retention around your current employees who you think maybe back to that graph have drifted away? How do you bring them back? Is it more than culture? Is it training? Is it development? Or do you have to consider that these people are probably not right for your business anymore? And that might sound a bit brutal, but that is how businesses are going to be thinking about or should be thinking right now. So that’s in itself, you know, you need to think about that as a job seeker as well. How do you make yourself a working from home person? So using tech, obviously, that’s going to have to go on the up. Changing your criteria was just talked about? So you know, what kind of person are you are you looking for?

But the good news is, if you are going to look at Tech and be a bit more open to remote you opening your skill sets as a business as well. Now, you might think at the moment, yes, there’s a lot of people looking for work, but as you move forward, you can open to get better skills, and that Just 20 miles from your doorstep. And the other thing is changing your management style. A lot is about jobseekers, adapting employees must adapt adapting your CV. But as a business, you need to adapt how you manage people, how you incentivize, motivate, manage will be different remotely than you do in the office. So I also think you need to think about your managers. And if you’re, if you’re managing yourself, look at yourself, and how do I change my management style. There’s an absolutely awesome book, which I do encourage anyone who’s likes is managing and wants to manage and this is ongoing new world. It’s called drive by Daniel H. Pink, brilliant workbook, which basically says the whole carrot and stick start of recruitment, do this, you get that, that if you do if you don’t do this properly, you know this is going to happen. style, which is proven in all sorts of businesses and sectors is the way to manage people. Well. Actually, this demonstrates that it isn’t. And we’ve been implementing in this style of management in the back end of last year, we went through a bit of a rebrand. So we’re already on this journey. And I can tell you I found it uncomfortable at first like it’s kind of working and people in charge of their own sort of autonomy. But actually that’s that’s forced upon us now you have to give people autonomy. You can’t You can’t look over people at home, normally micromanaging an office, let alone when they’re in their spare room. And it talks about freedom in the 40s, which is task time technique and team. Honestly, it’s a great book. But I think without going into the to that book is itself changing your management style, hugely important if you’re going to go forward in this and recruiting and motivating your current team. And then all while we’re talking about remote working, working from home, flexible hours, etc. There’s a big office somewhere. There’s got no money in it. And businesses right now are thinking about Well, you know, times are tough. Where do I make this cuts? commercial property is going to take a hit. I think we will we all know that. And a bit like Dominic’s point around, things do come back. So the difficulty businesses are rightly having now is, do we go remote forever, because I do have some clients who physically do not have an office and they function very well. But it’s a very, very different type of business. Look at the creative agency environment, you know, creative brainstorming ideation, that’s really hard to do over Skype or zoom. But you might want to rethink what an office looks like where the office is, I mean, you’ve got my headache. My office is a city centre, Birmingham, where from get some commit on public transport to get to do you think that actually it’s a rotation so you suddenly got less office space, especially if you go social distance, everybody so that’s a big headache that employers need to be considering. We have clients who said they will not occupy an office on January and that is one of them. Is it Big fmcg brands that are flying off the shelves in the supermarkets right now. So it’s got nothing really to do with cutting costs. But it’s all got to do about what do people want out of a job. People are going to want some flexibility for long term now because they’ve had a taste of it. And I’m with Dominic, I like being in the office too. But I have enjoyed having a little bit of flexibility and a little bit more time with my kids. It’s I think that’s only human. So I think that’s a dialogue that you should be having as a business. But I also think that like you should be having with your team, you know, engaged, ask them what, you know, what are you thinking? But for me, the biggest challenge for businesses, this is this the thing which I can’t put on a graph, but it’s the intangible but for me is the biggest biggest challenge

Unknown Speaker 44:50
is not being human.

Rob Markwell 44:53
Right now, and in my humble opinion, businesses have the upper hand they have the control They are in charge of furlough.

Joe Glover 45:03
They are keeping people

Rob Markwell 45:05
with an income. And those business owners and leaders are also at home, they have detached from the other people because they haven’t seen their team, their employees for ages. So they’re crunching numbers and they’re forgetting that there’s people on the end of those numbers. Now I know you have to be objective, and you have to as a business owner or leader, look after the welfare of your company. And that sometimes means difficult decisions. So I’m not shying away from that. But at the moment, businesses might even not know that they’re pushing it too far. So every everyone’s going to have to take a bit of a hit here. Like that’s just life. So you have to take your team with that. But at the moment, you might be pushing a bit merchant people saying, Yeah, yeah, we’re in this together out of fear of not wanting to, you know, push back or disagree. So there’s a real consideration businesses have to do to open a serious dialogue with a team of employees to say, look, you know, this is where we’re at Where’s your head out. You’ve had all this time off, have your priorities changed as your mindset changed. I know there’s a lot spinning around employers minds right now and and team leaders and business owners, but you have to absolutely ring fence the time to understand what people can do to come on this journey with you. Because when the tax starts to turn on over the next few months, I know it might not be an absolute flow, but we are still going to have to return to business. You need people fighting any people engaged, need people motivated, and they need to feel like they’ve been invested. I do think that this is the biggest thing that a lot of clients aren’t doing. They’re just doing what needs to be done. And actually this is a real opportunity to change the script and have everyone involved in it. Because we’re all learning at the same time. And locked down I think has made a lot of people appreciate the basics in life. How I talk to my neighbours, now, you know, all this stuff is happening and I’m enjoying a walk with with my seven You’re old and I need to do that before you get caught up in the rat race. So when people start to look for jobs and the market tightens, and it is it comes candidate driven again, because it will, because it always does sector. They’ve been looking at those Glassdoor reviews of how you behaved as a business in this time. And they want to know that they’re a part of a business that will have their back when stuff hits the fan.

And I think that’s the biggest thing that you really need to consider.

In order to attract the right skill now, but have a brand moving forward. It’s the same as every marketer on these webinars has probably told you show your true colours now, and it will absolutely pay off down the line.

Unknown Speaker 47:44
And I said,

Rob Markwell 47:48
Oh, now you can see kind of what’s happened now.

Dominic Phipps 47:53
Can you see me again? You back Jerry in charge? Yeah,

Joe Glover 47:58
I got you. I was muted myself. This has not been my finest hour in tech, despite what you guys have been saying. But thank you both that was insanely useful. Like, I think there was some really actionable points there. There was some really human points too. And I think also, on another level, and this is far from your intended consequences, I think it’s also really useful for people to see recruiters, you know, as living breathing human beings who actually really, really care about the people that they interact with, because you do. And, you know, that’s even as useful as a position exercise when people are sending through their CVS and stuff like that, because they start seeing you as people, you know, which is really important. Now, there’s been a whole bunch of questions in, we started a bit late, so we’ve got like, 1014 minutes ish, to go through them. What I would say to folks is if you see a question in the q&a feature that you want answered, give it the thumbs up. There’s 45 open right now. So I don’t think we’re gonna have time to go through all of them. And so Rob Dom will have to keep things quite brief with our answers. But if you guys see a question that you want, give it a thumbs up, because that’s how we’re going to be taking them. So straight from the top. And this actually links in with another one of the questions, so I’m going to smash them together. It’s from Tammy who says, where is the best place to keep an eye out and look for quality roles? And then the second part of the question is, someone else asked, Can you trust the rows that are unlike indeed, and places like that? Because it seems like the sun that might just be there to gather data rather than actually advertise a row.

Dominic Phipps 49:47
I suppose I’ll give rob a bit of a break from talking I’ll try more. And so firstly, best place to to view roles and what I would do is and this links to Not having a job search as a full time job itself. Choose one reliable job board, I would say something like, indeed, read. And those those boards are the ones which have the most volume and and also the best exposure to clients. So clients will typically go to those job boards, but they’re also the biggest there, I would say probably focusing on those ones. Whereas if you go to multiple boards, you’ll see the same roles posted across multiple boards, you’ll end up applying for the same position three or four times. Okay. And, and the Sorry, what was the what was the second one?

Joe Glover 50:44
How trustworthy other roles

Dominic Phipps 50:46
up there? Yeah, sure, sure. And

it depends, and that’s I know, that’s a very shaped way of me sort of saying this. And you will find that some job boards they will they repost agency roles to gain traffic is a little bit, you know, it’s, it’s really just to get the traffic through to their websites. And so even if a role isn’t live, it might be reposted two or three times, but you might find a role that then continued on for, you know, two months when it was actually placed after only three or four weeks. So what I would do is, in terms of viewing job roles, I would tend to only apply for a role where it goes into real detail surrounding the client, and it’s actually giving you the candidate some insight. Without that insight, chances are actually it may just be an agent or you know, or an outside entity just fishing for the candidate details to then use as potential kind of spec ins to clients that that would be my advice.

Joe Glover 51:49
That’s so interesting. Rob, do you have anything to add there?

Rob Markwell 51:52
No, no, no, no. Definitely.

Joe Glover 51:56
Awesome. So next question from Tom who says Hi, guys. How easy is it for a marketing manager to switch sectors? And I guess that kind of there’s quite a few questions here, which is like, I’m in fmcg. And I want to go to tech or whatever it is. So you know that that kind of jumping between sectors. How easy is it for folks?

Rob Markwell 52:18
I’m happy to grow out.

Again, I’m going to give a bit of a woolly answer, because it doesn’t is not a one size fits all. Obviously, some verticals, it’s easy to switch into others.

There are going to be some industries performing

better. Now fortunately, obviously, leisure hospitalities is going to be hit for a little while. But

the biggest thing you think about is competition. I think that’s the best way of answering this question. What is your competition for that role? So if you want to make a switch for a sector, I mean, I’m guessing it by the rule that if you want to do something and set your mind to it and make it happen, it’s just going to be difficult because you’re going to be up against candidates who have that CB that looks bang on for the sector. And if an eight to 13 seconds a recruiting managers looking at CV does put you at a disadvantage. So it’s all about your presentation. So you will need to go the extra mile. I know that sounds fluffy, but if you present yourself better than the next person, then and you make the extra effort, so you’re not just applying the CV and then hoping for a reply. You know, you’re you’re finding out on LinkedIn who the persons in charge you making connections, you’re showing yourself on LinkedIn and engaging with those posts and commenting. So if someone does get to your LinkedIn profile, why are you talking about fmcg

Dominic Phipps 53:37
Oh, but you’re in tech.

Rob Markwell 53:39
And you’re engaging, you’re picking up the phone and try and speak and say, Look, I sent your CV and I didn’t harass people get the balance right. But you will have to go a little bit above it. If there’s any specific sector sort of challenges, then you know, probably one on a one to one chat that we could have either meal Dominic through the sort of CV surgery but yes, you is doable and we see it happen. And I understand if your sector is struggling right now, you might want to find this as a perfect opportunity to go up to something new. And so you should

Joe Glover 54:10
that’s, that’s wonderful. Thank you, Tom anything there will

Dominic Phipps 54:13

Joe Glover 54:18
fat cool. Kate, who says what skills and training do we should be focusing on to make sure we stand out? And that probably add another question because she has added it in the comment section which talks about like stuff like qualifications such as like the CIA am and other qualifications out there. There’s plenty. So definitely not picking on the CI M. But whichever, you know, what’s the value that you guys place on that and also,

Dominic Phipps 54:46
so Joe and Rob say, your qualifications are always you know, that they’re always good with the actual meaning if the word qualification qualify you for things so and so you would hope that it would hold some Wait, in some way, and qualifications. being completely honest with you, qualifications will only take you so far. And likewise as well if you are already at a management level, and so marketing manager and above qualifications are less important. I mean, that’s been seen, you know, from various pieces of research and there’s only one or two hiring managers are looking for a manager level CV. And I would say if you, if you are looking to broaden your skill set, I mean, there’s that, genuinely there’s plenty of relatively cheap courses which you can pick up, particularly surrounding social media engagement, sizing, and analytics as well. And there’s one thing I would definitely recommend is just really having a look at the having a look at the course see if it’s accredited in any way or link to any well known establishment or anything linked to us. Diversity, usually pretty good indication. And likewise, anything which you feel will genuinely help your skill set. And by that what I mean is there’s lots of there’s plenty of very hollow qualifications. And I mean, I know several people who’ve taken very, very comprehensive degrees, myself, one of them is actual fact what have I really learned from that degree? is questionable. So I would say that really just have a look at what it is that you can really gain rather than just having, you know, letters on letters on a CD or, you know, behind your behind your name on a profile. So, just do a bit of research. That’s probably what I say. Nice,

Joe Glover 56:46
that’s fab. I really like that. He actually flips the narrative quite a lot away from, you know, look at the CV to, you know, look what you can actually do to improve yourself which ultimately is also the point of the CV to show that You are that person. So I think that’s really good advice. We got a question here from Aurora, who says it’s a broad one, so is big. Any tips for cover letters? So keep it short and basic versus going into the detail to include all the topics from the job author and stuff like that, or do you make it short and punchy. And Rob, perhaps, let’s

Rob Markwell 57:29
write cover letters.

I think you’ve got to make sure that you see has a has a sort of an intro and a blurb, and making sure that the two aren’t the same. If you’re going to go down the level of a cover letter in the most strictest of term, first of all, make sure it’s adapted to the job. I know you might be applying to lots of jobs, but but that is the biggest pet hate or you’ve accidentally sent the wrong one to the wrong job. And, and we get that a lot, you know, like okay, even prior to that recruitment company to be okay. So that’s I mean, that’s I noticed sounds basic but pulling stuff out of the job. Yes, that’s good. But you can take it a step further, this is all about standing out. And we’ve got the internet by the way. So go and find out something about that company or that person that you’re applying for that is relative, and put that in there. And make sure you put words that stand out because there’s scanning if you think they’re skim reading the CV, the skim reading your cover letter, and speed of knots.

Dominic Phipps 58:27
In fact, I’ll be

Rob Markwell 58:29
honest that many times I go straight to the CV and then I read the cover letter later to see if he’s good. So put words that catch the eye like Dominic Stan earlier on about stats, no lie and demonstrate your your value in numbers and figures and percentages, put names, client names, people’s names, projects, names, stuff that is relevant to that company that’s going to engage them, you know, talk to them about them, as well as you in the cover letter show that you’ve stopped and paid attention to the business to which you’re applying.

So I would I would go a little bit further than that around

Joe Glover 59:05
around the cover letter. That makes sense. That’s wicked. Thank you. That’s really great advice. That’s not something I’ve heard before. So thank you, Tom. Anything there? Oh,

Dominic Phipps 59:14
yes. Same I would. I’ve

linking back to what Rob mentioned, actually, about the industry, and, you know, transferring industry and so on like that, I think, if you’re going to write a cover note, be straight to the point, you know, again, sort of eight between eight and 13 seconds to review CV it’s, it’s a heartbreaking stat that but that that was a stat that came out a couple of years ago, and surrounding hiring managers. So just think about getting the impact in there as soon as possible, make it punchy. And as Rob mentioned, make, make sure very clear that you understand their business and how you might fit into it. Thank you.

Joe Glover 59:57
So we’ve got a question here from Doug Who? I guess there’s an element of mystic Meg here gonna come in? But I think it’s a relevant question and certainly something that a lot of people will be thinking about, which says how do you see the jobs market going? Once we fully sort of ease back into I don’t want to say the new normal verbal, you know, I mean, DC organisations bunkering down to see how it all goes or lead into this. Do you see that being a move towards more like interim roles or using outsource freelancers slash consultants, and I guess that’s actually quite an interesting general trend about freelancers and consultants to

Dominic Phipps 1:00:41
shore up so it’s all about business confidence and business confidence will dictate whether that company will then invest further in marketing, first of all, so, irrespective of whether, you know, obviously, all of us are in here now, starting the webinar. We are all linked tomorrow. Getting and, and first and foremost, it’s about their marketing budget. You know, if they’ve got a budget there then they might look for then outsource to two agencies use for other freelancers. And, or they might look to start thinking about hiring, and they will only start hiring However, once they have consolidating what they already have, in a sense, because especially in a recession period, you’d have to be pretty brave, or have a hell of a lot of capital behind you to take chances, in a sense. So I mean, typical periods, you will always see a lag time. So let’s just look at very briefly, I’ll skip through it. So Brexit, the thing that we never hear of anymore. So Brexit, there was a lag time of about two months of Brexit, so obviously November, December and then our our, you know, peak period ends was January. So all those business plans that were seeing before Brexit, they were holding on to those plans. Just because we’re in a time of uncertainty at the moment doesn’t mean all of those business consultancy built plans which these companies have spent thousands, hundreds of thousands on to develop, they won’t be completely wiped out, they will be on hold. So it is just about waiting for that lag time, in a sense to to, you know, to kickstart the market again. So, I would say, you know, follow as Rob mentioned earlier on, it has kept the jobs market on a bit of a limp mode, that we’re all in right at the moment. And as soon as that ends or changes in some way. It does then dictate that teams are going to have to be much more defined. And in that definition, then comes whether they can grow. And that’s what that sort of skill set looks like across the across the whole marketing function. So hopefully that tentatively covers it up but three to six months I think is real realistic recovery?

Absolutely. I

Rob Markwell 1:03:03
think what I’ve seen before with dips in confidence, as Dominic said, That’s Brexit or credit crunch is brands will, obviously they’ll consolidate, then they’ll start to be a bit brave or and allow source projects that’s agency or the flexible workforce, you know that the Forgotten as I call them early on, as valuable freelancers that that the industry relies on massively. And then that picks up and then what businesses do they think, right? Okay, well, we can also then look at scaling up and then they bring a lot of that in house. Right big thing that credit crunch did I thought is it took a lot away from agencies and brands started to invest in their own teams. And rather than having retained projects out to agency, we’re doing a lot more project based and trying to build more functions in house. So Dominic mentioned about in house talent looking at agency side is is definitely something to consider. I wouldn’t be surprised if you see agency work picking up dribs and drabs first, and brands just kind of waiting until they can see a little bit further than next Tuesday before they start recruiting in masses, other than maybe turnover or changes of skill set necessary. So I would expect agency and freelance then in house,

Joe Glover 1:04:21
that’s, that’s really smart. So and that’s great inside say, thank you. I’m conscious of time. So we’re probably gonna only do four more questions because those are the ones with 10 votes or more, and then I’ve made note of the other ones and I’ll, I’ll send them through, which might be good content marketing for the rest of time, for certainly for you guys, but hopefully, we can also help a lot of folks. So for questions very quickly. The first one’s from Lana, who says that they only see jobs that are digital heavy, in terms of, you know, skill set. So is it something which They can look to get around, or is it just something that needs to be considered now as part of their? Yeah, I can see not nothing from Rob and smiling from DOM. So maybe that’s the answer as quickly as that.

Rob Markwell 1:05:14
We think it is. Yeah. That’s just the way now. Yeah. And that’s probably a good place. Look at the training

Dominic Phipps 1:05:19
right now. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Just to add to that, it’s just about that word. measurability. You know, the reason why it is most popular is just because it’s justifiable. And businesses always want to justify marketing spend, so to speak. It’s, it’s the new norm.

Joe Glover 1:05:40
Nice. You’ve shortened it to the new norm. That’s that’s a good spin on it. Okay, so we’ve got a question from anonymous, who, and this might be something you can look back on after the credit crunch and stuff like that, who says will wages be affected now there are more candidates for Fewer roles. Will companies push down wages, do you think? And that might be something you can use experience rather than? No.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:09
I mean,

Dominic Phipps 1:06:09
I think I think wage

Rob Markwell 1:06:12
rate cuts can be a thing in your current business if you’re still working. And that might be something to expect less lucrative packages being an offer. It’s probably also something to expect. But something drastic as in every, every every sort of level roles going to take a massive step backwards for severes. I wouldn’t be so quick to jump on that. I think it’s more likely look, we’ve paid what, what people are worth, but it’s just less of those jobs available. It might be my new tweaks rather than anything drastic. We saw the kind of raising in, in salary stagnating, the credit crunch, so there wasn’t a year when we raise for a cup for two or three years. So expect that and that does push that puts pressure on the cost of living obviously, but I wouldn’t expect a fix Five k jobs suddenly to be advertised for 20 for any company does that back to what I was covering is it’s just going to, you know, come out with mud on their face. Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Glover 1:07:13
Absolutely. Brilliant. Okay, so we got a question from James, who says, with more people applying for the same roles, how do you cut through the box ticking slash, possibly automated, shortlisting process? And there was a there was another question here, which was about automation of recruitment and stuff like that. So I guess the first question is about standing out and through like a box ticking exercise. And then the second is like, is the rumours of automation in recruitment lead to be believed or familiar?

Dominic Phipps 1:07:50
And so, the coming off the automation one, first of all, actually, that’s that’s probably the best way to go. So it does happen. It does. happen. And admittedly, that tactic is less is employed, certainly less on specific roles. I mean, I would be, I would be astounded if automation tools for marketing positions were being used for, you know, long two positions in any given two, typically the the the automation package side of things and the keyword search element. They tend to be deployed for more, more mass recruitment projects, if that makes any sense. So, and then they typically also won’t be handled by, by recruiters, you know, we as recruiters, agencies, have yet to hear of a single a single occurrence of any automation based searching on CDs happening within agencies, but it does happen within in house recruitment, but that is just because there are so many live positions for those roles and they got such a large workforce and so they might be recruiting The 60 or 70 rolls, and they’ve only got one or two people to manage those, those applicants and hence the reason why they then tend to come out to specialist recruiters who will physically look at every single candidate CV and profile so and so, and the reason why they would come out to special slot brand or special spot pitch, so it is one of those things where it does happen. And, and then to, to focus in on your, your actual CV and your your profile itself. In terms of the buzzwords side of things, and how do we you know, in essence kind of see through that. It really depends on the client brief. And that client brief will dictate how open the how open the brackets can be in terms of who we can consider. So, a company might ask for fmcg experience or fmcg food background, they’ll only consider that that’s fine. Our next level as specialist recruiters will be then to ask the court Question. Well look, if if the candidate has sold products, food products into retailers, could you also consider people coming from other tangible products within b2c things to resell and then it just slowly but surely opens up the brackets a little bit more. But it really depends on the who’s already in the market who has a lot of competition looking like, for instance fmcg food positions, they’re notoriously difficult to fill, because there’s less people who tend to look for those, those roles are a bit more stable in terms of longevity within position. So but then, as businesses can cash in on the fact that they will just consider b2c people rather than b2b. So is that that’s the best answer that I can give with regards to that, but it’s, it’s a case by case basis.

Joe Glover 1:10:48
extra thing for Europe. Maybe Anything to add on the standard out through that box ticking exercise is that again down to ringing ringing the recruiting manager Mr. Smith?

Rob Markwell 1:11:01
Well, yeah, and I guess like I said, if you’re if you’re working with a specialist recruiter in your sector marketing, like the parallels, you’d hope that you know, you’re looking beyond the buzzwords you’ve got a consultant understands the industry understands even probably understands the company you work at currently. And he’s able to paint a basic picture more apart from buzzwords and then comes a conversation and the call and then you understand a bit the person the detail behind the CV and that’s where the agency recruitment agency bit does the game and I think sometimes in in house not always. It is just a question about CV to have the buzzwords and tick boxes and I’ll just go through the process and almost just invite people for an interview based on the CV not rather you always you know, if you if your CV kind of looks in the ballpark of what the clients brief does, then there’s a call with a with a consultant to find out more and then there’s that sort of sifting process is more than box ticking but if you want to play along to capture the box taking people to then yeah, make sure there are those keywords around your industry in your CV. So you can capture all so yes, it does happen. It’s not how our types of businesses operate, because that’s the value we add to the clients and the customers. But yes, that does happen. So maybe, yeah, there’s an element of play, if

Joe Glover 1:12:20
that makes sense. That’s awesome. Thank you both so much. Like I’ve, I’ve know that I’ve learned a lot so I’m sure that everyone else hopefully, watching has learned a lot too. I’ve no doubt they absolutely will. And thank you both for the way that you do business as well. You know, I appreciate that I hearts and souls really has come through for both of you throughout the course of of this so you know, I’m really grateful for that. For those of you interested then we still have the CV sessions live until tomorrow to apply for so we can’t unfortunately, get through everyone. But if you are interested in a 30 minute CV session with Rob with Dom or part of their team, then I’ll link in the follow up email. And then just to reiterate again, then please do take the time to thank the sponsors because they’re so unbelievably important in power in in everything we do with the marketing meet up. With all that said, like, I just want to say thanks to you guys, and thank you to everyone attending. Really, really grateful for you.

Rob Markwell 1:13:30
Thank you. Thanks, everybody. And thanks, Joe, for making this awesome.

Joe Glover 1:13:34
Appreciate you guys and even if we started six minutes late, so so nice. Thanks, guys, and we’ll speak to you soon. Take care.

Rob Markwell 1:13:44
Thanks, guys. Bye, everybody. Bye.


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